🔊 My Husband’s Dream Vacation (F)

This story is the first to feature the (F) notation, so we at MH felt it would be a good idea to elaborate on what it represents. In a story with an (F) rating, you may find mention of fantasy talk or imaginative imagery involving situations that a Christian couple finds exciting to think about or discuss but that they wouldn’t actually seek or participate in. This is an experimental change, but we want to recognize that not everyone feels burdened by a temptation to do in reality the things about which they fantasize, leaving them free to play pretend with one another without sinning. 

That said, F-rated stories will still not be told as if they are fact. They may involve dialog spoken as if activities are real, but the narrative will make it clear that it is imaginative play between husband and wife only. If, however, you struggle with the idea that sexy talk with your spouse can include scenarios that God has said not to pursue, you would be best served by skipping stories with this annotation.

 

My husband finally convinced me to remove the last of the hair below my neck, leaving nothing hidden between my legs. Now he is planning our vacation to a resort that has clothing optional pool and beach areas.  And with the last of what covered me gone, I need to shop for a bathing suit. I’m not sure which scares me more. Maybe we could compromise, and I could just go topless? — Just?! What am I talking about? But that means finding a bikini. I haven’t worn one of those in a generation.

—–

When we check in, the young lady with a flowery dress wrapped around her sexy body informs us that storms have delayed most of the guests for a day. We will have most of the facilities to ourselves.  It doesn’t take my husband long to use that fact to convince me to wear my bikini for the first time. We take a walk around the grounds in the dimming light as the sun sets. The garden area is beautiful. And the desk clerk was right; no one else is in sight.  The “Clothing Optional From This Point” sign has my husband requesting that I remove my top. He is more than glad to help.

As my boobs sway from side to side, their nipples hardening from the cooling night air, we see a hot tub. Well, more of a jacuzzi, with jets making the water bubble. We enter, and I am almost comfortable in just my bottoms. He takes off his trunks and requests I do the same.

“One step at a time,” I tell him.

As the music blares from the fake-rock speakers and the noise of the water movement fills our ears, we enjoy the freedom. Kissing and touching start to consume us.

“Do you mind if we join you?” A voice breaks through our kissing. The loud music had covered the arrival of a couple, maybe a dozen years younger than us. They both quickly remove their clothes and enter the other side of the whirlpool. Before I can get jealous of her perky breasts, his rapidly hardening, thick cock catches my eye. Staring at it might have embarrassed me, so I look up at his eyes — only to realize they are trained on my breasts! I had forgotten they floated free, bare and visible. My husband notices the man’s gaze and begins getting hard too. Fear gives me a “want to flee” moment, but covering up or running might make it worse.

The bubbling water covers us from about the nipple line down, so when my husband moves my hand onto his erection, I can hold him without being seen.  The other couple’s arms are crossed over each other, making it clear they are pleasing each other while maintaining a very innocent conversation.

Then the timer clicks, the jets stop, and the water goes clear. The man’s fingers pleasing her and both wives’ hands stroking their husbands become suddenly visible.

We find viable excuses to head back to our rooms. On the way, my husband tells me he can’t wait to be inside me. As we fly onto the bed, our discussion turns to her perky breasts, his thick, hard cock, and how seeing my boobs had turned him on. No need for the little blue pill tonight. As he pumps me at a slow pace, we imagine them doing the same on the other bed. His pace increases.

“Reach over and touch,” he says. Then he comes, thrust after thrust filling me with his hot fluid.

—–

He hands me the brochure and asks if I think that would be a place we should vacation.


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64 replies
  1. hornyGG says:

    I loved this story, very hot. I also like the idea of a " F " rating. Fantasies are part of human nature. Especially in sexuality. I have several fantasies that I have in my notebook that deal with being watched or watching. That is all they are, "Fantasies". Ben and I sometimes will read them and get turned on , then screw or masturbate together . I personally see nothing wrong with such fantasies as long as they are not brought into reality. The "F" rating will give readers the option if they want to read or not. Maybe I will share one of the fantasies from my notebook. If MH deems it to be unsuitable for this site, then no harm no foul. I think the "F" rating is an awesome idea! Cudos to the admins. Stay horny!

    😘 GG

  2. LoveMyWife56 says:

    Marge,
    Thank you for a very hot story! How much was fantasy and how much real? And…was the fantasy just his, or maybe your's, too? I would love for your hot-tub and fantasy couple to be my wife and me. Great second story!
    The hottest sex my wife and I have had in a long time was when we fantasized about being in a room with another couple, watching each other. We were BOTH so excited!
    Steve

    • SecondMarge says:

      I had another idea that involved other MH couples. Maybe I will try to form a story.
      If it were real it would not qualify for MH. So 😉 of course it isn’t true.

      My husband wants to attend a clothing optional resort. He would love to have me walk naked or at least topless around other couples. But we have not done it. Yet.

      I am more of the people watcher. I am all for your watching other couples make love “fantasy”. I considered having that happen in this story but was afraid it may not have been approved.

      I am so pleased you found it hot.

      Thanks to MH for making this the first fantasy story published. I hope it opens the door for the much better authors to contribute.

    • possibility says:

      Wonderful hot fantasy story Marge.
      Just like you and your wife, Steve, my wife and I have had the same fantasy about being in the same room as another married couple making love.
      Oh, the tenderness and passion they show as they kiss, feel, fondle each others naked aroused bodies.The sight of their beautiful God made bodies and the unrestrained erotic sexual moanings as they lose themselves in the God given bliss / blessing of marital coupling not to mention the lovely aroma in the room when a couple makes love.
      I hope we have more of these stories in the future!

    • PacMan says:

      Possibility, like you, same room sex is one of my biggest fantasies. My wife has a low libido and doesn’t share this fantasy with me, but that’s okay. This story inspired me to submit a same room (F) post of my own. I think MH is a bit backed up, so it won’t release for 6 weeks. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Stay tuned.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Possibilities

      That would be fantastic. Seeing her sexy body being penetrated by his big fat cock at the same time I was feeling my husband enter me. Both men teasing our nipples. Feeling their energy building. My husband getting so excited that they see me not only naked but having sex. The written word of such a situation gets me horny. Actually seeing it and I might have several orgasms. We have friends that have talked about sharing a vacation condo. But nudity or sex didn’t come up. Maybe a make out session while skinny dipping? I hope someone takes the idea and writes a fantasy.
      Thanks for commenting and enjoying my fantasy.

  3. PacMan says:

    Fantasy can be a LOT of fun… and it can surely spark the fire of Marriage Heat. Totally understand if others steer clear of (F) stories — we all have different “boundaries.” But I’m very excited for this new addition to the site. These pretend scenarios are super hot. And SecondMarge’s hot tub scene has got me hard! [I think my wife would have finished me off right there in the hot tub 🌜🍆💦]. LOL! Can’t wait for tonight with my wife!!

    • SecondMarge says:

      I am happy for your wife my story got you hard.

      I agree the (F) label allows people to avoid what they may find wrong while letting others express themselves about thoughts most of us have.

      Your idea of them climaxing in the hot tub is a good one. Might have been a better ending. If I write another story I will try and do better.

  4. Rcthom55 says:

    Marge,
    Thanks for this hot story. A hot tub fantasy like this is one of mine as well, but know it is unlikely to happen. Still, it’s fun to think about to get turned on – to watch and be watched as a fantasy. I am coming to believe that more couples have fantasies than I used to believe.

    I, too like the use of the (F) category.

    Loved your line – “….. covers us from the nipple line down.” 😀

    Thanks to MH for trying this. Hope to see more (F) stories in the future. And thanks to you Marge for your past suggestions about including this type of story.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Thanks for the compliment. Being an observer of others seems to be a natural desire. So a fantasy where they are naked and sexual would seem very normal.

      I too look forward to the accomplished writers of MH taking on the (F) category. And to see just how far they take it. And just where MH draws the line. I would hope any legal activity would be acceptable.

  5. lenos says:

    No 'F' rating here — my wife and I really just returned from a tropical resort with a nude beach. We visited the nude side on our first day and were so glad we did! Despite never having done anything like that, it didn't take long at all to feel totally comfortable. We spent most of our time over there, ate meals, chatted with folks, played volleyball, floated in the ocean. All while totally naked. It was at the same time the most innocent and erotic thing ever. It really puts things into perspective. Everyone should try it!

    • SecondMarge says:

      “Innocent and erotic” sounds great but how was it both?

      We are friends that are family nudists that claim it is innocent. But don’t mention erotic. It certain to be erotic for my husband.

    • lenos says:

      Innocent:
      *Once the initial shock wore off, it felt 100% natural, right, and good. We felt no conviction. Quite the opposite — we suddenly just "knew" all the fuss about modesty rules and nudity was pretty silly.
      *My wife said she felt like Eve; naked and unashamed.
      *When everyone is naked, pretense and status kind of melt away. We talked with old, young, fit, fat, rich, poor, beautiful, average, and various nationalities. People were just people.
      *Seeing all kinds of different body shapes and parts made us feel great about our bodies, even though we weren't the hottest ones out there.
      *People were 100% respectful. They made eye contact. They were genuine and friendly. On the non-nude side everyone stayed inside their own bubbles.
      *Like every guy trying social nudity for the first time, I was worried about erections. It really wasn't an issue… and my wife and I hung out with some smoking hot naked couples several times.
      *All over tan!

    • lenos says:

      Erotic:
      *Being seen naked and having my wife seen naked was vulnerable and hot. Sharing this beautiful thing that had always been under wraps was electric.
      *There were strictly no PDA's allowed, but just seeing other loving couples spending naked time together was hot.
      *Being in close proximity, talking and spending time with other sensual beautiful people was erotic.
      *Talking with my wife about attractive couples, and what they might be doing when they got back to their room was sexy. We had some great sex with some dirty fantasy talk.
      *Thinking about other couples maybe being turned on by us was hot.
      *The only time I had to turn over in my chair to let an erection pass was when an attractive girl in a sexy swimsuit re-entered the nude beach and stripped it off. I'd seen her completely naked already that day, but wearing the swimsuit, then taking it off was sexier than full nudity. Interesting, right?
      *None of the sexiness of the nude beach was in a raging boner kind of way. It was more of a sensual undercurrent. And it wasn't particularly directed at other people, though being there with them was part of it. It definitely wouldn't have been the same being naked on the beach alone. It was just a generally sexy environment which my wife and I channeled to each other.
      *Nothing in the sensual energy of the situation detracted from the innocence. It truly was both. I found I could talk to a an attractive naked woman, not ignoring her sexiness, but simultaneously just being friendly, cool, and regarding her personhood.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Ok that explains the innocent. You said and erotic. So how is it erotic while being so innocent?

      I have skinny dipped with another couple but I think that isn’t the same.

      It does sound like something we will end up doing.

  6. HappyHubby says:

    Thanks for the story and taking the time to be vulnerable.

    As for the F rating I have mixed feelings. I hold very firmly to the belief that Sex and all of the explicit parts that belong to it should be reserved for just me and my wife. While I understand that this kind of fantasy is certainly erotic it is not consistent with what I feel the Lord would have me dwell on personally. Actually going to a nude resort would be even more incompatible for me. Its not that I am prudish about nudity or fantasy, I just want to reserve that for me and my wife alone as I find this is what really develops intimacy in marriage . I would caution Marriage Heat as I am sure they are prayerfully considering what content to allow. There is always the temptation to go further and I really have appreciated the boundaries MH has set on content being between just a man and wife. It is what separates this site from nearly all others. I have noticed a some pictures MH uses are now more explicit than they used to be, especially when you look back at some of the very early posts. My question for both topics would be why go there? Is there a purpose other than pushing boundaries? There may well be reasons but I would humbly suggest that boundaries are a good thing and MH has followed established principles that have guarded and served them well.

    • SecondMarge says:

      HappyHubby

      Sorry you found my fantasy offensive. We all have different boundaries. It’s a topic that was discussed at length here recently. The resolution was to allow fantasy stories but to protect those like you by labeling them with an (F).

      No one advocates you should do anything simply because it’s in a story. And I’m sure you would never be that easily influenced.

      Why should the stories and more explicit pictures appear? Because they help create heat in marriage. As with other labels here, like (L) and (A) that discuss topics some do not participate in or agree with.

      I am rather surprised that after a long and detailed warning by MH that almost stopped me from reading my own story, that you would still read it. So I must also wonder if your desire is to control what others think.
      I’m guessing you knew nude beaches existed and yet their mention here somehow was a threat to how you choose to behave in your marriage?

      I hope many much better written stories will follow with the (F) label and those that agree with you pass them by. I hope God helps you resist temptation to read them.

      Again my apologies.

    • Ben says:

      I agree with you. I am concerned that MH is becoming essentially a masturbation site for voyeurism and exhibitionism. Now with ever more increasing risque pictures and audio. Which is essentially involving 3rd parties in the experience. Years ago it was just words, like Song of Solomon.

  7. ILoveMarriage says:

    Very hot, Marge. This post reveals that you have a good understanding of the male mind. That would indeed be every man's dream vacation!

    I do find the F rating confusing for this story confusing, however. MarriageHeat states that the F rating is for "… sexy talk with your spouse can include scenarios that God has said not to pursue…." I understand that the scenario imagined by Marge is something that most people would be uncomfortable doing, and if you actually did what she imagines and the people back at church found out about it, well, let's just say it would be a great way to get out of teaching Sunday School :-).

    But I see nothing inherently sinful about the scenario. It is totally within the MH theme of hot monogamy. MH has many stories where the couple make love where they could be or are seen by an innocent passerby. In this story, two couples choose to expose themselves an a place where it is appropriate to do so. This story seems less risqué than all of those other stories.

    Living out this story may be a bad idea for some people. If anything lessens your attraction to your spouse or creates sexual desires for someone else, then you should not do it. This includes reading the Song of Solomon. But that was not the case in Marge's scenario. There was no lust here. People are capable of appreciating God-created sexual beauty in someone without wanting to have sex with them. Her husband seeing the other woman just made him appreciate and desire his wife even more.

    Men are generally enamored with whatever breasts their wives have, be they large or small, perky or droopy. A man's love for his wife is the main thing that makes him prefer his wife's boobs over all others. The uniqueness of her boobs also keep him focused on her and her only. I was totally smitten by my wife's boobs when I fell in love with her, and have only come to lust for them more and more as the years pass. Her tits are quite unique. But I would not know or appreciate that if I had never seen other women's. Indeed, in Songs 6, Solomon checked out many other women, compared them to his wife, and preferred her over all of them.

    There is another good outcome. Marge came away from the story with a new confidence and appreciation for her breasts. At first she starts to get jealous of the younger woman's perky breasts. But the younger woman's husband is turned on by her breasts. And Marge's husband, after seeing the other woman, can think of nothing but going back to their room and doing Marge.

    Based on this story, I look forward to future F-rated submissions! However, I pray that they keep within MarriageHeat's theme of hot monogamy. I don't see how fantasizing about having sex with someone other than your spouse is not adultery of the heart. If the new F-rating permits writing about any sinful perversion by merely framing it as a fantasy, Marriage Heat could end up being not much different than secular sites.

    • MarriageHeat says:

      Guys, we really appreciate the feedback and want to be clear that the hot tub part of the story wasn't the part we were considering the fantasy, though it was written as a "looking forward to" sort of dream. It was the fantasy talk when the couple got back to the room that we assumed could be problematic for some, the imagining of the other couple there in the room and the encouragement to touch. While a common theme in fantasies, MH would consider such an encounter told as reality to be "soft swinging" and therefore outside the guidelines of this site. We absolutely don't want to say anything goes in a fantasy story, and not even anything legal goes. But we do want to acknowledge that, for some couples, fantasizing with each other about (and without any intent to pursue) things that turn you both on can be a safe way to deal with those thoughts, *if* to do so falls within the parameters of our Prime Directive as God's children – Love God and Love Each Other. If the spouse found it harmful or hurtful, one would, of course, refrain.

    • PacMan says:

      I appreciate your thoughts, ILoveMarriage. And like you, I’m really excited about the new (F) stories — even just submitted one of my own. I feel like the MH Admins have done an excellent job of listening to conversations on this topic and prayerfully discerning the proper steps. They have made it clear that this isn’t a gateway to just post about extra-marital affairs (and such) and just slap an (F) label and that makes it okay. There are probably SOME scenarios where boundaries do get crossed and/or the story lives in a “gray area.” But my understanding is that it must be explicit inside the story that it is fantasy between a married couple and completely fiction. My wife and I sometimes have fantasies that would be outside our moral lines, but we don’t think it’s wrong to share these thoughts out loud — so long as the intention is not to act on the immoral things. It’s a welcome addition to MH in my book.

      Let’s say, for example, the story above ended with the two couples having sex in the same hot tub at the same time. There’s probably a range of opinions on the morality of this… it’s at least a gray area. BUT, the sexy *fantasy* scenario might help stoke the fires of the marriage bed for the readers. Just because it is fantasy, doesn’t mean that any readers or even the writers should or would act upon these desires or scenarios. And if folks struggle with that… that is exactly why the (F) label exists… not to draw people to it, but to serve as a warning for those who aren’t ready or don’t enjoy *fictional talk* concerning gray areas of sexuality. Some people can watch something Rated R or NC-17 and not be affected. Some people are negatively affected. In some ways… to each their own. But no one likes when someone watches an R-Rated show and then complains about immoral situations. It’s like “Yo, you knew it was R-Rated from the jump!” Such is the case with (F). Steering clear is fine (and maybe recommended for some). But consuming the content and then complaining that not everyone’s *fantasies* are 100% all the time inside the traditional marriage moral framework will be like “Yo, who u foolin?” (I don’t think you have done this ILM… just speaking in general.)

  8. A Better Pastime says:

    I do very much agree with Happy Hubby, and glad that he gave his thoughts on the subject. People can submit their comments without story authors taking offense, or as a personal attack. I've noticed that some of the more open-minded Bible interpretation users on this site have less room for tolerance of the more conservative-minded Bible interpretation users: i.e taking offense, or feeling personally attacked. I would think that if a user makes the choice to become an author and submit a story, that they would have the maturity to understand that it might not be liked, or even appreciated, by everyone who reads it. Also, that personal examination might be in order.

    • PacMan says:

      Love your thoughtfulness here, A Better Pastime. I agree with you that HappyHusband’s thoughts were more about his concerns on the new (F) policy, and not an attack on the author. At the same time, I 100% understand how an author might take things personally… the writers on this site really put themselves out there. So some inadvertent hurt feelings will arise. (I am VERY thankful for how loving and positive this community is overall.) And you make a good point about “open-minded Bible interpreters.” Yes, they can overreact (I’m guilty of this). Just a hunch that it is rooted — NOT in a dislike or disagreement with the conservative interpreters— rather, the fact that these people in most cases are leaving or breaking free from a more legalistic and/or fundamentalist church structure. So something is indeed “triggered” when a comment might be presenting a more rigid or rule-based interpretation. •• All this to say that we all have stories and are at all different places. And we can love the foot for being a foot and the shoulder for being a shoulder. We never have to wish that one part look or function more like the other. It’s unity thru diversity!

    • SecondMarge says:

      A Better Pastime

      With all due respect to your opinions, the lack of maturity and need for self examination depends on which side of the issue you are on.

      I did not defend my story. I defended the MH decisions to have an F rating and the more revealing pictures. Because that is what he complained about. His comments were more reopening the discussion of a month ago on whether to allow such content.

      I feel his comments and yours, are really about relitigating the decisions of MH that you disagree with. Are we in fear of nudity? Another member earlier in these comments expressed the innocence in being nude.

      As far as my story, I am not offended that some think it was not very well written. In fact I agree. If anything I thought the content of my story was tame compared to many that are on MH. I certainly was aware of the different opinions when I wrote it and was careful not to push the boundary.

      I think MH has been very tasteful in picking pictures. I believe it may take several stories to establish the exact boundary MH wants.

      But this isn’t Victorian England. And nudity is not the enemy. I completely respect not wanting to see others naked or them seeing you. But to take the next step and decide that others must have the same beliefs crosses the line of judge not.

      MH seemed to make a wise compromise by using the F label. Yet some not only don’t want to read those stories, they want to decide that you can not. MH went to long lengths to make sure those that didn’t want to read an F story they could avoid it. But to some that isn’t good enough

      I hope the talented writers here give us quality Fantasy stories. I am clearly not one of them and won’t try again. However poor my story is, maybe it will serve to help clarify how MH should handle this disagreement.

  9. SecondMarge says:

    I went back to read old stories and comments and found this issue of the boundaries is not at all a new one suddenly ruining MH. Some exceptional writing by Eva and HornyHubby almost 4 years ago take on the same issues. And why in a world with dozens of versions of the Bible and hundreds of different forms of Christianity why should we expect we can all agree on sexual issues. I am rather surprised the more conservative believers accept the concept of MH at all. I would just wish for tolerance and acceptance from both sides.

    Sin, Love, and Sexual Expression
    December 22, 2015/13 Comments/in Sex Advice /by Eva

    [From MH: Love this one! Here's the link: https://marriageheat.com/2015/12/22/sin-love-sexual-expression/ ]

    • nashoba says:

      Hi SecondMarge,
      You’re right on several points, not the least of which being that similar discussions and disagreements have been happening on MH for quite a while. I hope you’ll allow me to encourage you by saying that I loved your story. I truly hope you will continue to write. I also hope that you will not become discouraged [by dissenting comments.]

  10. MarriageHeat says:

    We believe the story was offered in love towards those who might benefit from it. We believe the cautions to MH and to other readers are also offered in love and not a desire to control others. The differences of opinion were stated as personal opinions, observations, concerns and questions, not statements of condemnation. Some of the people who have connected safely on MH over the decade-plus of its existence understandably want to protect it, so we don't take any offense at them respectfully voicing their concerns.

    P.S. I didn't read where anyone thought the story wasn't written well. That kind of comment would just be hurtful and not approved. You did a great job, Marge.

  11. HappyHubby says:

    SecondMarge I am sorry if you took my comments as an attack on your story or standards, this was not my intent at all. I have enjoyed your well written, erotic stories on many occasions. I specifically began by complimenting your story and courage in posting. I was simply expressing my personal reason why I believe MH should be cautious in pushing these boundaries. As others have expressed, MH is a place of encouragement and I certainly did not want to cause hurt. My comment was a request to MH, and perhaps to all of us, to prayerfully consider our boundaries. I believe the world has cheapened sex and the Church has failed to celebrate it. MH has celebrated it, for which I am very grateful, and done so while holding to Biblical principles. I hesitated in posting because I did not want to cause controversy on MH but felt that the topic was important and deserved prayerful consideration.

    • HappyHubby says:

      SecondMarge, as a note, I did have you confused with another author. I looked and realized you had previously posted only one other story which I had previously read. It was well written and very vulnerable. This being only your second story I understand why you may have taken personal offense at what you deemed a negative comment. I sincerely hope you won't be discouraged and will submit many more stories in the future.

  12. hornyGG says:

    First of all let me say that SecondMarge, you did an excellent job with this story. Please continue to write what you feel.
    Second, MH does a wonderful job with this site. It is not a easy job running a unique site like this with so many gray areas. You will never be able to please everyone.
    Ratings such as ( L), ( A ) and ( F ) are a excellent idea. Such ratings give a reader the option if they wish to continue with the story.
    Ben and I have been with MH pretty much since it's inception and have seen many changes as this site has grown. All seem to be for the betterment of the site.
    When I started writing stories for MH, I took alot of criticism for my use of the F-word. I never use it to be vulgar or to offend anyone. I put it in my stories because Ben and I use the word regularly during our sex play. Yet the criticism, some rather hurtful came quickly. I even considered not writing anymore. But I stuck to my guns. Because of this the ( L ) rating was instituted.
    I personally like the idea of being able to share fantasies ( F ) and see nothing wrong with sharing the fantasies a husband and wife may express together.
    Ben and I have several fantasies we share that we wouldn't dare act out, such as " watching " or " being watched ". No fantasies about " swinging " as we believe the Lord would not agree with such thoughts.
    It is not our job to criticize someone unless it is " helpful criticism " and not judgemental. " Those without sin, cast the first stone "
    I hope MH continues with ( F ) stories and writers can feel free to share such stories without fear of being judged.
    As far as the pictures getting " more risque" well I approve. Nudity is not a sin nor is seeing anyone else nude. Ben and I have a gym membership and locker room nudity is a given.
    Ben and I are not ashamed of our bodies. Turning to a nudist lifestyle was not for sexual reasons. We did it because we enjoy the " freedom " of being nude. We have a vacation coming up soon where we will be staying at a " clothing optional " hotel. This didn't come on a whim or for any sexual reasons. We have been discussing the idea for sometime and have friends that stay in such places. My friend Mrs. Rose and her husband often stay at " clothing optional " resorts. Something they started while vacationing in Europe. They are a Senior couple who like ourselves have turned to a nudist lifestyle and have encouraged us while sharing their experiences.
    Nudity is definitely not the enemy and I have stated that I would love to see a bit more nudity in the pictures MH uses. Now I am not talking about genitals. I mean a bare ass or a woman's breasts ( nipples and all ). Pictures of men bare chested are shown frequently, why not a woman? Should not be a double standard.
    Well I have gone on far too long and I am sorry, so let me say that I love you all, God bless and stay horny always.
    😘 GG

  13. PatientPassion says:

    Since the topics of tags/ratings and pictures have come up again, allow me to add my thoughts. I believe the ratings are mostly good as as they are. I think the feedback on the next few (F)-rated stories will help MarriageHeat shape more specific policies on what is allowed and what isn't. My only current idea to improve the system would be to perhaps add a brief explanation of the ratings at the beginning of each story they apply to for the benefit of those less familiar with the site. For example, a story that qualifies for all three of the current tags may feature a message like this at the beginning:

    "This story contains the following elements that some readers may find inappropriate:
    (L) – Intense language
    (A) – Anal play
    (F) – Fantasies that push boundaries
    Reader discretion is advised."

    The ratings could also be explained in a little more detail on an "About" page or elsewhere, instead of or in addition to their place at the beginning of a story.

    As for the pictures, I agree there's nothing wrong with nudity, but it can be a problem for some. The ratings help people avoid things that might bother them, but we don't have the same kind of system for the pictures. For those who are bothered by more risque pictures, it might tough to visit the site altogether because there's no way to avoid them beyond "bouncing the eyes." (On that note, didn't MH have an option to hide pictures for a brief time a year or two back?)

    I am a little concerned that increasingly risque pictures, including the possibility of more blatant nudity, might drive away some of the more conservative readers, and perhaps more significantly, prevent others from ever joining the community. As has been pointed out before in other discussions, the more conservative people who are looking for help with their marriage and sex life are exactly the people that MH needs to reach, so the leadership and community should do everything possible to create a welcoming environment for them. In my mind, this means minimizing the non-essential content that might drive them away (namely more risque pictures). If they can't handle the site's essential content(namely the stories), there's not much we can do. But if we can avoid immediately turning new visitors away with what they may consider to be porn (even if it's not), I think it would be a wise step to take to expand MH's appeal.

    I may be more aware of or sensitive to this issue than others because I have to make an effort to ensure the pictures don't cause a problem for me. For example, the story that was posted today features a picture with a fully nude woman's backside. This can be tough for me because I find that to be the most attractive physical part of a woman, and certain feelings conjured up by that sight have to be consciously kept in check so I know my heart and mind are in the right place. But despite the challenges like that, I find MH valuable enough that I still visit frequently. Of course, for those who are bothered or don't like the content, staying away from MH altogether is an option. However, I find it to be such a valuable resource that I think it should be tailored to appeal to as many people as possible, especially those newly-awakening conservative-minded people who need it the most.

    With that said, I would restate my agreement that there is nothing inherently wrong about risque pictures, even involving explicit nudity. I think they can be valuable in giving each story some extra spice and a small visual to connect the story with. I simply don't want to ignore the potential downsides or costs of that kind of content being on the site.

    For the above reasons, I would propose the following solution, which I believe I have mentioned before: Ideally, I would recommend that visitors (who are not logged in as members) be shown milder pictures, such as a fully-clothed couple kissing or holding hands. Then for members who are logged in, there could be an account setting to allow a more risque picture to be displayed in place of, or alongside, the milder one. I know this may require some extra programming work, so I know it may not be a short-term or simple solution. (However, I'm beginning to study web development myself, so if this sounds like a good solution, I may be able to help implement it in a few months' time.)

    I'm glad the community can have discussions about things like this! Having the ability to discuss differing ideas in a respectful and civil manner seems to be becoming less common, and I'm happy to see we can still do that here. (And I'm thankful to the MH team for encouraging that kind of discourse!) I look forward to future conversations on topics like these!

    • lttlb says:

      PatientPassion, if I'm understanding you correctly, it appears you're articulating a means of implementing the principles of Romans 14, or as summarized in the first two verses of Romans 15:

      Rom 15:1 We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
      Rom 15:2 Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Ittlb

      Are you saying those that are more conservative sexually are weak?

      Those more able to cope with being open are strong?

      That it is up to the strong to help the weak be more open so they can be strong too? Because the openness of MH has taught me to be more open sexually and it has strengthened our lives.

      The knowledge I have gained here has helped me overcome ignorance and fear of topics I did not understand. That I have the power to participate in them or not.

    • PatientPassion says:

      @lttlb, yes, that is a part of the rationale for my suggestions, even though I didn't get the idea directly from those verses. It's partly to help those who might be considered "the weak" to avoid pitfalls, but it's also a practical means of facilitating gradual growth. A milder welcome could allow certain people to integrate into the community and perhaps see some healing or growth, rather than be turned away immediately by seeing things they aren't comfortable with.

    • lttlb says:

      @SecondMarge

      “Are you saying those that are more conservative sexually are weak? Those more able to cope with being open are strong?”
      Well, they might be… though I don’t know that I could conclusively prove either statement. In other words, someone conservative sexually wouldn’t necessarily be weak (ie, perhaps they know they could do more, but choose not to for some reason of their own), and someone who is more open isn’t necessarily strong (ie, perhaps they are just using their liberty to serve the flesh). But either seems possible. In either case, I think it depends on the person’s relationship with God, and their conscience.

      “That it is up to the strong to help the weak be more open so they can be strong too?”
      That might also be true. But it probably all depends on the person. There are probably people who will never be ‘strong,’ whether it’s with respect to this issue (ie, MH's subject matter), or something else. And hopefully that’s okay and we can still love one another as Christian brethren regardless. Maybe some can be gently taught. It’s most likely God that moves the heart of each person, whether weak or strong, at the time(s) of His choosing.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Ittbl

      I was seeking clarification on your assertion that the more conservative are weak and in need of help and quoted a Bible verse that you seem to think follows up on that belief.

      No I don’t think either side of the religious debate is weak nor needs help. But both sides should be considerate. From my point of view MH has done a good job compromising. I read the conservative side as thinking the more liberal are getting their way. I don’t find that at all to be the case. The fact neither side is completely pleased where MH has drawn the line in the sand probably means they are doing a great job.

      I do agree these discussions are helpful. It’s too bad we can not have a permanently open discussion possibly located in the guidelines section to discuss issues of concern. To air out complaints and make suggestions.

  14. SecondMarge says:

    Lenos

    I want to thank you for your description of your nudist experiences. Innocent and erotic. It really made me contemplate my husband’s desires and my declining. For years close friends have invited us to their family nudist camp as their guests for a week or weekend. My answer was always no. They also suggested a clothing optional beach less than an hour from their home. They offered to accompany us for moral support.
    After reading your positive comments I called her and agreed to take a stroll on the beach with them. They had planned to go with their daughter, son and his girlfriend. She asked if I would be more comfortable just to go as couples.
    I worked up my bravery and committed to joining their family this weekend. I hope the experience will be as positive and innocent as yours. I’m guessing my husband hopes it will be as erotic.

    • TexasCpl says:

      SecondMarge,
      I'm looking forward to hearing about your nude beach excursion this weekend. I have always wanted to do that with my wife. Maybe your experience and those of others on here will help loosen her up to that.

    • TexasCpl says:

      @secondmarge, how was the trip to the beach? My husband told me to read the comments here, and I am a lot more intrigued as well. We don't have any nude beaches near us but we are due for a beach vacation. I'm also curious to hear about @hornygg's trip to the nude resort this summer.

  15. SecondMarge says:

    PatientPassion

    I was fascinated by your suggestions. Customizing MH to the tastes of the more conservative. Protecting their eyes from naked rear ends, possibly large breasts, blondes, or feet. Instead of using labels, we could check a list of topics we want to read and others we want to avoid. Then we could bring in not only more conservative but more liberal membership by catering to their tastes.
    You could only see stories with mutual masturbation but avoid solo. Maybe eliminate content with pegging and snowballing or allow voyeurism and exhibitionism. [We aren't sure whether this paragraph was intended to be sarcasm or true contemplation of the potential customization of member interactions for the site, so we will give it the benefit of the doubt. In truth, this could be done with professional help, but is beyond our current abilities.]

    You say the conservatives need the help of MH more than others. But if we shield them from anything they don’t already know how would it help?

    Frankly, I have not seen one picture that would not be allowed in a PG13 movie. Or that any 13-year-old with access to the internet hasn’t seen much more explicit versions.

    I don’t think we need explanations preceding every story. The one in the rules section should suffice.

    Imagine the shock if a guest sees fully clothed pictures. Decides to join. Then sees those pictures turn into full frontal nudity. False advertising?

    I grew up in an extremely conservative environment. And while some pictures, stories, and comments here may surprise some of them, I doubt it would do any significant damage to any adult. I skip some stories based on labels. Others I start to read because I have enjoyed the author previously. If I am not enjoying it I stop reading and try another. It is a simple solution that any adult can cope with.

    • PatientPassion says:

      SecondMarge, thank you for your reply. To address some of your thoughts:

      I'm not necessarily suggesting that MH should "shield them from anything they don't already know." I don't think any of the stories should be hidden from new readers, although a system for filtering stories beyond the current categories may be useful. I think the tags/labels/ratings on stories, as long as the meaning is clear to new readers, is a strong enough system of letting people avoid things they don't want to read, for now at least.

      As for images available in movies or online, it's true that similar things are sometime seen in movies and far more explicit is available online. However, I don't feel that even comes close to being a good excuse to have that kind of thing on the site. There are other arguments in favor of more risque or explicit imagery, some of which I find convincing, but the argument that implies "we can see similar things elsewhere, so it's okay here" sounds like a very dangerous one to me. Also, I would respectfully take issue with the implication that there is not "one picture that would not be allowed in a PG-13 movie." Perhaps you haven't seen them, but there are some that would easily get a movie rated R. Take yesterday's story that I referenced, with a very prominently portrayed nude backside. Multiple others in the past have included bare breasts.

      The reason I suggested having a very short explanation at the beginning of every story is that many people might not read through the "About" page or wherever the ratings might be explained. When placed at the beginning of a story, it serves as a clear notice, but isn't overly intrusive since people familiar with the system can scroll past it in half a second.

      As for false advertising, I'm very confident we can prevent that from being an issue. The milder pictures would be set as the default, and the more risque ones would ONLY show up if manually enabled by the user. There wouldn't be any worry of pictures changing without any notice, except perhaps in the situation of a rare error.

      I hope that clarifies some things. Thank you again for engaging with my ideas!

    • SecondMarge says:

      I appreciate your clarification.

      It was not meant as a reason for the pictures, merely as an example of how innocent nudity is in today’s world. Full frontal nudity is PG13 in movies like Titanic and over a hundred more. Naked rear is PG. not to mention TV commercials in Europe. Nothing here remotely close to causing R rating.

      I agree with others any nudity should be acceptable. Nothing wrong with the human body. If it was two nudes in a sex act I would understand. A man with an erection might be pushing the boundaries. But a woman’s rear or breasts? I appreciate you being hyper sensitive about nudity but that doesn’t mean the world should change.

      The ratings as you [called] them could appear at the top of the stories page. But on every story? Not necessary in my view. But what ever MH decides. Remember MH is already extremely restrictive to Start with. I know that shining a light on these subjects has helped me understand I was restricted from seeing. I think that is far better than hiding them.

    • PatientPassion says:

      Thank you for your own clarification!

      I incorrectly assumed that showing breasts, even in a non-sexual way, would cause a movie to get a rating higher than PG-13. I see how certain movies may provide good examples of innocent nudity, but I'm still concerned that nudity is often (though not always) abused rather than honored in the current state of media. (Though I'll admit, as I don't watch many movies or shows, I'm not qualified to make that judgement beyond a gut feeling or second-hand anecdotal evidence.)

      That's why, in some ways, I love the idea of MH featuring more nudity despite the challenges it may pose for me and others. In a world where nudity is so often portrayed as automatically sexual, or as a temptation to do or think something sinful, we need a Christian perspective to reclaim the natural, naked beauty that God created for the human race. The whole idea behind my proposals is to help slowly ease people into that view by starting with milder pictures, and allowing them to expose themselves to more as they feel they're ready.

      As for putting ratings on every story, I would only put the short explanation on the stories to which the tags apply. If a story has no ratings, there's no extra message. If a story has any of the ratings, a brief message shows up explaining the tags that apply. Your idea to put the explanation of ratings at the top of the list of stories is very reasonable though, perhaps better than mine. My only concern is that it wouldn't be seen by those who find stories directly from a third-party search engine, which constitutes an unknown proportion of readers.

      Lastly, I don't think MH is "extremely restricted," I think it's one of the most UNrestricted sites and has one of the most free-thinking communities around, compared to the majority of Christians. Of course, to very open-minded people (such as yourself, I would guess), even a relatively free-thinking position can seem restricted. The opposite is true as well, where some highly conservative-minded people even find MH's stories pornographic, let alone the pictures! It all depends on our perspectives, and I hope these potential changes can help bridge that gap and bring Christians of all mindsets closer together as we pursue what's right, acceptable and pleasing to God!

  16. SecondMarge says:

    Ben

    I’m guessing your comments were made in jest. Looking at older stories here was the first time I saw the term jilling. A female commenting on a story she found so hot she, I can only guess, felt the desire to please herself.

    When I read your comments I could only think of Casablanca. I’m shocked, shocked that members are reading stories here as masturbation incentive. Seems that most stories are followed by comments like “that made me wet” or “hard” depending on gender.

    I only read them to be educated. Never met anyone named Jill.

    • Ben says:

      Totally serious. It was asked a couple of years ago, where's the line. And the line is moving consistently. Now it's pictures with faces not just bodies anymore. What's next? Video clips? Pictures of the contributors? It's gone beyond nameless faces educational and fun stories like Song of Solomon. (The premise behind the whole concept) Where is the line?

    • SecondMarge says:

      Ben

      I apologize for misunderstanding your point of view.

      Do you object to people masturbating or only if their inspiration is a story on MH?

      Where is the line? As I understand it is that sex remains inside the marriage. Exactly how a person not in the marriage can contribute with their image, experiences or thoughts is more cloudy. I suppose the answer is in the same way the Song of Songs can.

      Although I do chuckle a bit that Solomon is held up by both sides as a guide to righteousness and acceptable sexual thinking. He wrote 1000 songs, one for each of his lovers. The 300 wives and 700 concubines that composed his harem. Since it’s the major source of desire and lustful writing in the Bible it maybe the only choice.

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      True that he wrote over 1000 songs, per 1 Kings 4, but there's no indication those were all love songs. I expect you were just comparing numbers, though.

      There a resource I like a lot called The Bible Project that has a short but deep video treatment of Song of Solomon. It has a slightly different perspective on the authorship of the collecion of poems, but looks at the imagery and historical interpretations of the deeper meaning of it to the Jews, Christians, and historians. Some here might find it interesting.

      [From MH: a quick Google search should be all one needs to find it.]

  17. BradMona13 says:

    My husband and I love the concept of the (F) rating. We have had a few situations that we contemplated posting, but feared they would cross the bounds. They have involved public nudity, voyeurism and exhibitionism. Maybe after we see how these (F) rated stories progress, I'll add a few of ours.

  18. Stag-on-a-hill says:

    Thanks for everyone's comments here. I don't really understand the F rating so I will have to read up on this. I'm not sure why we need to share these fantasies here, so I'd love have more info on this. On a positive note, I'm glad more and more people here are trying social nudity and are becoming more relaxed about it – that seems positive. It will be great to hear more stories on that. Lenos, your comments were great.

  19. TPC says:

    Marriage Heat,

    First, I appreciate the "F" experiment because it has generated good discussion within the MH community and hopefully among husbands and wives.

    Second, I appreciate the comment MH made that fantasty can cross to reality. It might be good for us to examine some different passages of scripture in this discussion. There is a lot of freedom in the maritial bed but also some very good protective boundries.

    In recent months I have thought about Paul's description of marriage as a reflection of the Trinity (1 or 2 Corinthians??). For a long time i wondered how does the unity of two reflect the unity of the Three. I think guided by the Holy Spirit I am coming to understand that the Lord is the third member of the "marital trinity". Thus sex outside of a covenant marriage grieves the Lord because the wonderful gift is not being received with respect and thankfulness but rather selfishness and greed. Just some reflections I have been thinking about as my wife and I get ready to celebrate 25 years of marriage. Blessings

    P.S. My wife and I have enjoyed some good baggin over the last week with a little fantasy talk sprinkled in. "Yeah Baby!"(Austin Powers)

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      Hmm. I don't know of anywhere in the Bible that marriage is discussed as an image of the Trinity, but it is discussed as an image of the mystery of Christ's relationship with his Church. I did a little looking online and saw some teachings that made a case for the Trinity image and I definitely have heard some sermons discussing God as the "third strand" that makes the cord of marriage "hard to break" – referencing Ecclesiastes 4:12. Not saying I disagree with the idea, but I just can't find it in the Bible. Can you help me, TPC?

      Even with God as our "third strand," per your P.S. you clearly don't believe that means not feeling free to share your imaginations with your spouse. And I think that's what the F-rated stories would start to do – highlight the vulnerability and acceptance in place in a marriage where neither spouse feels threatened by the "what if it wasn't wrong" scenarios we can come up with sometimes – and to suggest that maybe that's a good thing, at least for some.

  20. Stag-on-a-hill says:

    From my study of recent commentaries on Song of Songs, it's unlikely Song of Songs was written by Solomon, because the Shulamite girl boldly states that her lover is way better than Solomon. And from the descriptions of her lover, he is a simple country boy, but she sees him as far more wonderful than Solomon despite all of Solomon's wealth and 'vineyards' etc. Song of Songs is subversive like that.
    I would have thought the issue here is how we define lust or coveting. From my study of the scriptures 'lust' (or if you like 'coveting') includes… dwelling on, savouring, mulling over, cultivating, fantasying about… things that are not ours to have… whether a person… or equally we can lust for a wrong activity or experience, something that is not rightfully ours to have.
    Also, I would say, the evil one always tempts us by first getting us to desire what is wrong, and then getting us to dwell on that thing, fantasise about it, constantly read stories about it, masturbate to it, etc… Martin Luther said, 'You can't stop birds flying around your head, but you can stop them making a nest in your hair.' Having stray thoughts/desires for certain sexual things is just natural (that is not a sin and it means we're just healthy sexual beings), however, to harbour these desires/thoughts if they are about experiences or scenarios that are wrong, or not ours to have… to play with the idea, to choose to hold onto it, etc, etc… then that is sin.

    • PacMan says:

      I used to have a similar understanding of “lust” – but have changed my thoughts after much study about 4-5 years ago. I’m NOT saying that I am right… or that you are right… we are very finite humans trying to comprehend the infinite ways of our Creator. Where I *personally* stand now is that none of the things you mentioned constitute “lust” (i.e. dwelling, savoring, cultivating, fantasizing… reading, masturbating, etc). Again, 6+ years ago, I would have totally believed the exact same thing you said. But now I truly believe that “lust” involves intentional actions toward the ownership of something that doesn’t belong to you. Dwelling on or fantasizing about something isn’t always lust… actually it rarely is. The “lust in your heart” in Mat. 5:28 isn’t about having sexual thoughts, arousal, or even repetitive desires or fantasies. It’s about devising a plan of sabotage. Now, to your point, completely giving in to unhealthy thoughts and fantasies is dangerous, and not recommended, b/c it will often lead to real “lust.” An example of this: say single man Abe is having sexual fantasies about sleeping with his Pastor’s wife. Even to the point of masturbation, I don’t think it is the Biblical definition of “lust.” BUT if Abe finds out that the Pastor is on a business trip, and he devises a plan to bake cookies and deliver them to the Pastor’s wife while she is alone and to win some affection… that has now become covetous and lustful. Those unhealthy thoughts may contribute toward the lust… so I do get what you’re saying. I just wouldn’t say that the dwelling and fantasy are lust by themselves.

    • SecondMarge says:

      After my readings, I have to disagree with you on several counts. Desire, lust and covet are not interchangeable at all. Often those words are translated wrong. Such as in Matthew which should read covet not lust. The same word is used as God used in the commandments to read covet. Covet requires wanting to take action to possess. It is a sin where desire and lust may not be. If you covet your neighbors car you want to go hotwire it and steal it. If you lust after it you may ask him to let you drive it which is not a sin. Desire would be just an appreciation for how good a car it is. Scriptures even list the three separately which would be redundant if they meant the same thing. The word evil used in front of desire showing desire in and of itself is not always bad at all.

      Many theologians are now of the belief the two lovers in Song of Songs were unmarried. They had made love and were separated. At the time couples often had sex before marriage without it being considered a sin if it was an arranged marriage and their parents had agreed the marriage would take place. Similar to being engaged.

      Adultery is a married man having sex with a married woman. If she was single it was not adultery. Women were not accorded the same distinction. Another translation issue where wife and woman are used interchangeably but should not be.

      My own beliefs are those were very different times and some rules important then no longer apply now. We know this to be true on certain issues but some resist change in other logical areas.

      Nevertheless, [I believe] the Bible most of us have is ripe with mistakes, errors in translation and man-made changes.

    • PatientPassion says:

      I haven't studied this in as much detail as others in this thread have (Stag, PacMan and Marge), but to me it sounds like there may be confusion between biblical and modern definitions of lust. Allow me to posit a few general definitions to draw what I think may be the distinction:

      Covet: to be willing to, or to take action toward improperly possessing something.
      Lust (biblical): to covet sexually.
      Lust (modern): to strongly desire something.

      As SM said, I think Matt. 5:28 could easily read "covet" instead of "lust," but I think in that context, it means exactly the same thing. In my mind, the Bible appears to define "lust" not as something separate from coveting, but simply as a *specific kind* of coveting. I think this might be getting confused with our modern definition of lust, which involves feelings and desires that are not considered covetous. Using SM's car example, I believe seeking to steal the neighbor's car would indeed fit the biblical definition of coveting, because of the willingness and action taken to improperly possess it. Under the "modern" definition of lust, the second and third examples (lust and desire) are effectively the same thing, just perhaps to different degrees, and are both not necessarily sinful. (Of course, there are some limitations to this example, as we obviously treat thoughts and actions towards people differently than towards objects. I'm not prepared to elaborate on the details of that difference, though.)

      Could multiple definitions of lust be at least a partial explanation for the confusion, or am I still missing something?

      On a separate note, as I wrote in the definition of coveting, I think the standard for covetousness is not only action toward improper possession of something, but a simple willingness to act if given an opportunity. I would suggest this is because, whether we act or not, as long as we're willing, our heart is in the same place of rebellion against God. For example: a spy in a king's court would be guilty whether or not he found an opportunity betray the king and cause grievance to him. He would be guilty even if he were waiting for an opportunity and not actively pursuing one (willing, but not acting).

      In reply to Stag-on-a-hill, I agree that lust/coveting does often include dwelling on or fantasizing about something we cannot rightfully have, but I'm not sure that in itself necessarily constitutes coveting, as I define above. However, that doesn't mean those things are harmless. To PacMan's counter-point, I would suggest that dwelling and fantasizing (aren't always, but) can be unhealthy and dangerous even if they never lead to lust/coveting. This is because of the very real potential for someone's lessened appreciation of, or dissatisfaction or discontentment with that which is already theirs. Of course this risk is different for everyone, and in this case I think it's impossible to draw a single line that defines the safe boundary for every person. We all have different strengths and weaknesses, and some may be able to resist discontentment much better than others.

  21. SecondMarge says:

    As this “story” is about to leave the main page and head to internet never never land I want to thank everyone for their comments. It was interesting and educational. Thanks to those that enjoyed the story and support the (F) label. I’m sorry I didn’t do better to those that didn’t like it and are offended by the (F) label. I believe the discussion was good for MH and hope everyone accepts the compromises MH made.

  22. BradMona13 says:

    I noticed the concern over this becoming a "masturbation" site. My husband and I love reading the stories and comments on here and have posted our own story. We both travel often in our jobs so masturbation is a big part of our sex lives. Many nights on the road we will engage in texting or phone sex while masturbating. Often we discuss the stories that many of you have posted on this site.

    We do discuss fantasies also. It's a big part of our sex life. Especially when apart. Since we are committed to each other, we have no problem talking about our fantasies, even when triggered by something we have seen or read.

    I personally love seeing the fantasies of others, and so does Brad too. It often gives us new ideas to try when we are together.

  23. ILoveMarriage says:

    I totally missed the fantasy within a fantasy aspect of this story (btw, very clever, Marge 🙂 ). They did not invite the other couple back to their room, so when I read that part of the story, I thought they were thinking about the other couple doing it in their own room.

    I had to look up what "soft swinging" is. For anyone else reading this who is as naieve as I was, it can involve anything from two couples doing it with their own spouses in the same room, to anything except actual penis-in-vagina adultery with not-your-spouse.

    Two couples doing it with their respective spouses in the same room is probably a bad idea, but I don't see anything in scripture prohibiting this. Again, I maintain that this is not as morally objectionable to doing it in public where some unsuspecting passerby might see you. (Perhaps we need a new rating "I" for "Illegal"? :lol:) Sex researchers watch people have sex all the time, and no one gets bent out of shape over this. Granted, in a clinical setting there is no danger of one thing leading to another or friendships ending because emotions get out of hand. But fundamentally, it is no different.

    Personally, I see fantasy as a healthy way to explore things that are not immoral but that you would not want to actually do, or could not actually do. I draw the line at fantasy about immoral acts. When I read this story, I did not associate the husband asking his wife to "reach over and touch" with touching the other man. Or Woman? Still, this aspect is not a deal-breaker for me. The story is written so as to be titilatting, but leaving the details to the imagination of the reader. Is she reaching over to give the other guy manual sex, or to pat him on the back for a job-well-done making his wife cum?

    Where I am going with all of this? I think that over time, MarriageHeat will need to refine what is permissible and what is not with respect to fantasies. Perhaps "soft swinging" is too broad a category to use for drawing lines. Mistakes will be made along the way. That is OK. Keep up the good work.

    I enjoyed reading everyone's comments. I appreciate it when people can disagree without being disagreeable.

    And Marge, a well-written story. Thank you.

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