Rebuffed
Hi, all.
I have been a long-time reader of MH—about nine years. I am a Christian man in my fifties, faithfully married to the same woman long enough to have grown children. My problem is that we don’t have sex. To put that in perspective, we’ve had sex five times in five years. She’s just not interested—at all. She will make suggestive comments and innuendos sometimes, but nothing ever comes from it.
I know you must be wondering about all the possible reasons this could be, and I’ve thought about them also. (And forgive my slightly jaded comment here, but sometimes it just isn’t the man’s fault.) I’ve tried all the things, I’ve said all the things, and I’ve done all the things that preachers and professionals suggest, but to no avail. I have been rebuffed so many times that I just don’t try anymore.
My drive is still very high. It’s not just the sex I need, either; I miss the connection. I can take the edge off with masturbation occasionally, but she doesn’t agree with that, so I can’t tell her. (Is it a sin because it’s kept secret?) I’m not looking for greener pastures, nor am I looking for an excuse to sin, but what am I supposed to do? I know the Lord promises a way to escape, but what exactly is that? (Oh, and marriage counseling is not an option either.)
I feel your pain, this describes me as well. Take comfort that you’re not alone and the only one who experiences this.
I’m sorry. I feel for you.
I feel the same frustration, as my wife has no interest either nor is she willing to talk about it. I wish and pray that it would be different.
pinbot17 & KingdomMan, have you tried giving her a massage? There is a lot of good how-to information on the internet. There was a period of time in our marriage when our physical contact (not just sex, but all the physical affection) gradually diminished. It wasn’t like someone turned off the light or we made a decision to not have much of a physical relationship. It was more that it was crowded out by daily cares. Because of back problems, we started massage. It is surprising how enjoyable a naked massage is for both of us. And a massage can get very interesting – real fast.
pinbot17 & KingdomMan, have you tried giving her a massage. There is a lot of good how-to information on the internet. There was a period of time in our marriage when our physical contact (not just sex, but all the physical affection) gradually diminished. It wasn’t like someone turned off the light or we made a decision to not have much of a physical relationship. It was more that it was crowded out by daily cares. Because of back problems we started massage. It is surprising how enjoyable a naked massage is for both of us. And a massage can get very interesting – real fast.
I’m sorry. I hope that changes for you.
We are about the same age. Some women after menopause lose all interest in sex and revert to almost a prepuberty level for hormones. They simply have no drive at all. My wife has said if we never had sex again, she wouldn't miss it much at all. She enjoys a foot rub or back massage just as much.
Problem with us men, our testosterone drops somewhat, but not off the cliff like women's at menopause. We continue to have an interest in sex pretty much our entire life.
You say she isn't open to masturbation? How about if you do it with her? No marriage counseling either? Why not? It could help you both understand each other's needs. Don't give up on marriage counseling or talking to her about sex and masturbation.
My wife and I went through something similar to this a few years ago. I decided I was not going to hide my need for sex anymore; she could either accept it or not. We mutually masturbate sometimes, and we both enjoy it. But a lot of times, I rub her back or give her a nice foot massage FIRST, then I masturbate while she helps or watches. She doesn't have to have sex, and we both get something we want from it. We cuddle, kiss etc. and still enjoy each other.
Ron33, I’m glad that you and your wife were able, and are able to find something mutually satisfying. As far as masturbating with her, that’s a hard no. Neither is she interested in marriage counseling…at all. She doesn’t see the problem and, therefore, is totally unwilling to do anything about it. She has decided for the both of us that we don’t need sex. I’ve stated my opinion, of course, but she is unmoved.
I wouldn't give her a choice, tell her you are going and she can go or not. If she just doesn't want anything to do with sex, it just isn't fair. I would probably leave if she wasn't going to do anything at all.
There’s a lot to unpack. But I’ll just say these two things… Some middle-aged women don’t have a need for sex. And without assigning blame, the truth is that sex is 0% a need for them and many think that is *normal* (ugh!) so they refuse to change or do anything about it. Next, your wife cannot deny your need for sexual release, even if she denies her involvement. If a spouse withheld food from a spouse and wouldn’t let them eat or drink, the proper word for that is “abuse.” Your wife cannot deny the sexual appetite you have. Yes you should be in control of your own body. It’s sad that it has to be in secret, but for now, oh well. You “belong” to your spouse, but you do NOT EVER have to allow yourself to be the subject of abuse… be it physical, verbal, emotional… or sexual. Also, maybe have your wife check out a Biology 101 textbook. 🙄
I appreciate your comments FL. While you are correct…she shouldn’t deny my sexual need, but she does so anyway. I don’t really have a solution. I’ve tried everything.
My heart goes out in compassion to you, KingdomMan. I am sure this is a very hard struggle. Being single, I can't fully empathize, but I know it must feel very hopeless and lonely. The state of marriages, especially Christian marriages, has really become a burden on my heart. There's been so much damage done by the Church and purity culture that sex is viewed as something bad. I don't know your wife's reasons for withholding intimacy from you. But I wonder if there was something, a teaching or an incident or just an outlook that she grew up with, that has influenced her. Do you possibly have any female relatives or friends who are solidly grounded in Biblical sexuality? If so, perhaps you could ask them to reach out to your wife. For me, hearing the testimonies of women who have overcome negative sexual views and embraced God's design for married sex has really helped me in my preparation for marriage. That may be what your wife needs. I would also ask how her hormone balance is. If she's near your age, she might be heading into menopause, which can wreak a lot of havoc. Perhaps she needs to be evaluated by a doctor trained in women's health. I will pray for you and her and that you will receive powerful answers from our Lord. He knows all the details and will solve this at some point! In the meantime, no, I do not think masturbation is wrong, even if you are doing it privately. A person needs that relief and if they cannot get it in their marriage, then, as long as they are keeping their thoughts pure and not looking at others with lust, they can get that release. I believe it's a gift God has given us for when we can't have sex. I can tell you that I utilize it plenty! God bless and guide you and give you His incredible comfort.
Thank you LLL,
I agree with you. The church has done great damage to Christian sexuality by its failure to teach and encourage intimacy in marriage. The church is so scared of sexual sin that it has gone too far in the other direction, and has caused more problems than it has fixed.
As far as female friends or relatives, I don’t really have anyone that could help.
Thank you for your prayers
My first thought was how difficult this is for you. My second thought was individual and couple’s therapy/counseling. Why is that not an option? I also wondered if your wife may have a hormone imbalance or some kind of health condition that may respond to medical intervention. Maybe a psychiatrist could evaluate her as well.
I am praying for you that you can figure this out. My wife & I had/have some desire discrepancy but individual therapy and sex/marriage therapy helped us work things out to mutual satisfaction. We also both benefit from hormone replacement therapy.
LovingMan,
Thank you for your comments. Marriage counseling is not an option because she doesn’t want to go. Believe me, I’ve tried everything…
You have a tough situation. A sexless marriage is not an easy path to talk and change the circumstances. Perhaps you are like me; I want my wife to want me. Asking for or begging for sex is not very emotionally or relationally fulfilling.
The troublesome issue is that she doesn't approve of your masturbating. If you can do it without breaking your relationship, explain to her that you desire and need sex with her. If that isn’t going to be the case (5 x in 5 years isn’t having intimate sex) then explain to her that you desire and need to masturbate. BTW, it’s not a sin to masturbate nor a sin to do so even if she doesn’t agree with it.
SilverGold,
I appreciate your comment, but I have explained my need to her.
I am thrilled that MH promotes training courses through Christian Leaders Institute. This mini-course on sex was excellent. Maybe your wife will take this course with you.
CHW,
Unfortunately, no. She would not take this course with me.
You could take it so as to become more informed about how to minister to your wife.
I think I’m the first female to respond. In my late 50s, and can relate to your wife somewhat but not anymore! This is my 2nd marriage of almost 15 years. There is a high likelihood that its hormones. I had a somewhat low sex drive most of my life (in my previous marriage, I could have gone literally forever without sex or orgasms and that would have been fine with me. (Although admittedly the marriage was bad from the start). I am crazy in love with my husband and although our sex life has always been good, and we have always had regular sex, I struggled with low libido and having orgasms. Finally decided post-menopause to do something about it and started hormone replacement. Well, let me tell you, once my hormones were “right” (and go to a doctor committed to “optimizing” hormones in pre and menopausal women not just for hot flashes and other symptoms but also libido) a light bulb went on. Wow. I understood for the FIRST time in my life how it felt to NEED it. Now. 😜😜. I apologized to my husband for truly not comprehending that biological need. (I tried never to say no to him even if I wasn’t in the mood, but that’s not the same as desiring it right along with him). He has always been so patient and understanding, which helped during that phase of our life as well. Once the fire was lit, it opened up our communication about all things sex. Now, (about 5 years later), our sex life is amazing. 5-7 times a week and there is nothing we won’t discuss and a few things we won’t try. I would definitely encourage her to get her hormones checked. Life altering for some.
Thank you Okiegal,
I appreciate your comments and advice. I’m really glad you found your new sexual groove…that’s awesome for you and your hubby😊
My wife takes estrogen post-menopause, and it has helped some. Can I ask what hormones you take?
Frankie,
The massage thing is an excellent idea, but she isn’t really open to that either. She’ll say that she is, but she shuts me down.
Then this is going to take a miracle. I will definitely pray. Our God does amazing things to the heart. Keep up your courage in the Lord, brother. There are things working in the background that you can't see. I know the words sound shallow, but it is so true. I know from experience.
Thanks LLL. I genuinely appreciate your prayers.
I would highly recommend you both watching this sermon our pastor preached on biblical sex. It’s not fair for her to not be willing to try…
[While MH doesn't allow user-submitted links to outside sources as a rule, we did watch this sermon and find it a fitting complement to our site's ethos: https://youtu.be/SX_vydl0Fg4 ]
This sermon is GOLD! I wish every married couple and every single person who hopes to get married would listen to it—monthly, even!
Kingdom Man
Your wife sounds exactly like mine. And all of the suggestions have either been tried or are a Hard No
I’m definitely gonna check out that sermon
Good! While your wife won't talk about sex, maybe she will listen about it!
Kingdom Man,
I have almost exactly the same situation. We've been married over 30 years, and in the beginning, it was fantastic. We couldn't keep our hands off of each other. It's been a steady decline for the past 10 years or so to the point where we typically go about a month, sometimes two, between. She's not open to counseling and gets angry when I bring it up. I have resigned myself to a life without much (or any) sex for the rest of my life. Honestly, I can't complain when I have so much to be thankful for in every other respect.
Thanks OG1. I try to do the same, but I’ve also accepted that I have a genuine need that is not being met. I don’t know how to deal with that, but I’ve realized that I can be thankful in some areas while acknowledging a sincere need in others. I will also pray for you and your journey.
Peace be with you brother.
I met a family once in which the wife said "No more sex" after the first child was born.
I spent many years thinking about their case, as I am sure that the husband did all he reasonably could to convince the wife of his intimacy and sexual needs. They are Christians.
The best I could think of was based on Scriptures.
Now, this teaching was used many times against women, so I ask the sister here to temper my words with their wisdom if I go overboard.
For simplicity I will just stick to Ephesians 5.
Scriptures teach that we should submit to one another, and the union, honor, and love involved in marriage, points to the union between Christ and the church. When a spouse neglects the other (in your case neglects your needs of intimacy, and sexual contact), this neglect is unfaithfulness.
What the wife in my early example failed to realize is that, by saying "No more sex' to her husband she was being unfaithful to him, and dishonoring Christ.
Now, in frustration it can be easy to weaponize it against your wife. So remember that Ephesians also teach husbands self sacrifice for the sake of the wife, to present her before God unblemished.
If your wife fears the Lord. Maybe this can help start an dialogue.
I have no advice on how to bring it before her, unfortunately. I will be praying for God to give you wisdom.
Hi Kingdom Man. I took a while to respond here precisely because we have a lot in common. I also made my own post a few days after yours, on talking about sex with a spouse who doesn't want to talk about it. https://marriageheat.com/2023/04/02/talking-about-sex-when-your-spouse-wont-talk-about-sex/
But I'm sure you've tried everything in my list already. You've clearly worked hard on this for a long long time. It must be very frustrating to hear all kinds of 'surefire solutions' that go nowhere. I won't add any more.
My situation is not as severe as yours. But I very much understand the sense of feeling unfairly trapped without options, no matter how much effort you put into it. And as you put it, it's not just the physical aspect—it's the absence of full connection, feeling that you are squandering wonderful opportunities to be as close as possible. I don't know how to change that, beyond keep trying, and to invest in the rest of your marriage as much as possible, despite that missing connection.
Not everyone here will agree with me on this, but I think we make too much of placing total dependence for our sexual needs on our spouse. If it works, great. But if it doesn't work because one spouse cannot or will not do their part—as in your case—it can be an awful trap. I'm not talking about going out and finding a new sexual partner. But I do think it's fine to masturbate and meet your sexual needs on your own, without feeling guilt that you're hiding things from a spouse that takes no interest in those needs. Manage your own sexuality rather than feeling dependent on her to do it.
Most of all, be aware that there are lots of spouses, both men and women, in situations like yours, often feeling trapped or ripped off by church teachings or just so tired of it all. You are not alone.
Thank you, Atlantic Man. This is very encouraging. But I do struggle with this part, “But I do think it's fine to masturbate and meet your sexual needs on your own, without feeling guilt…” I don’t really know how to do that. I don’t really know what’s okay to think about during my masturbation sessions. Most people advise thinking about your spouse, and I do, but sexual memories are few and far between. I wrote about my favorite, “Hot Shower,” which is scheduled to post here on 4/27, and I don’t know how many times I’ve jacked off thinking about it. So I make up fantasies… things I wish would happen, things I wish she would do… ways I wish she would want me. I’m so sexually starved, even most innocuous situations [with other women] set me off, and even though I don’t think of myself with them, I still feel guilty. I’m feeling guilty as I type this, and I’m not thinking about anything.
Anyway, I’m rambling, but I do appreciate your comments.
You're not rambling. You're turning things around and around in your head, trying to get a grip on an issue where your options are unclear and your real desires and wants are stymied. I get it. I don't have a simple answer, but I encourage you to figure out what is "okay" for _you_ and _your_ circumstances.
A very potent aphrodisiac for women is the desire of other women for her man.
Women don't commit to anything the way men do. Regardless of how long you've been married to her, she will still require work on your part to get commitment to anything from her.
Stop expecting it naturally. Put in the effort to get it easily. If you brush yourself up, improve what needs to be improved at work, at home and about your person generally, and become attractive to her and other women again, she will find her libido reenergized for you, and you will have what you want
There are many of us faced with the same situation or similar. Some have wives with health problems and sex is painful. Some claim to be followers of Christ but are only followers of Scripture when it is convenient. They only follow when it doesn't contradict their own desires or require them to honor HIM. Some have had bad experiences and are repelled by sex. The problem with that (if it is your case) is that she refuses to get help.
There is one thing among probably many that others could ask. First, how is your hygiene? Do you shave your balls and pubic area and pits and back and chest? Do you shower every night or time that you attempted (or attempt) to have sex with her. Have you ever been abusive to her? Have you had an affair in the past and you are not forgiven? If so, she is not following the Bible in forgiveness. If that is the case, your only option is to allow yourself to be eternally punished by your wife or leave.
If all of those things are answered in a positive light and she refuses help, then get in the gym. If you need to, lose some weight and tone your body. Get some new up-to-date clothes. Make yourself attractive to other women and let your wife know that the other women compliment you. Women at any age don't want what other women don't find attractive or want.
Go on YouTube and start looking at the passport bros that are leaving here to find love elsewhere. Let her notice your interest. DO NOT be afraid to let her catch you looking at other women and recognizing their beauty. Women want men, not boys they can abuse. We have a serious problem here with our women that have become feminists in the absolute worst way. They have taken over our role and leave us afraid to speak up.
There is yet another possibility or two. Did you know that college-educated women are the ones initiating divorce at a rate of 90%. They leave and take half of everything and can make false claims of abuse against their husbands. The courts take their side without evidence. The reason they are leaving is they aren't happy; really they are bored and unwilling to improve the marriage.
The last thing you might want to look at: is she having an affair? We are the last to suspect or find out. They are better at hiding it than we men are. They can cum multiple times and we cannot tell they have done it.
It has been found that some women marry for financial security and then have affairs on the side with the 'bad boys'. Was she horny when you were first married and then suddenly changed over time? There are several pastors and pastor's wives on this forum that might advise you on the proper reason for divorce.
The tactic of watching content about men seeking a wife outside the USA seems sort of passive-aggressive to me. OP is married and, by his own testimony, committed to his wife. While I agree that short of inability, sex is both a right and definitive part of marriage for both partners, it is seldom all one person's fault. Every obstacle in our path can become a stepping stone unless we give up and stop looking for the upward route.
I've found your reply very helpful. I am working on my hygiene and failing that I will consider joining a gym and toning my body for my health and her sexual benefit & ultimately mine.
This is a great mindset, EH! Working on yourself for your own sake tends to improve confidence, which somehow tends to make us more attractive. When Rez and I went through our near-split many decades ago, my friend and head drill sergeant encouraged me to work out twice a week—not just in words. He became my workout buddy and showed me that I deserved self-care. (This was at the same time that I had recommitted my life to the Lord and took responsibility for my share of the mistakes that had led us to that point.)
I agree with those who have said that counselling needn't involve you both if she is unwilling; you can seek Christian counsel in a men's group, from your pastor or someone he recommends, or even online. Also, the Intimately Us app offers lots of articles by Christian counselors who share strategies for building a lasting fulfilling marriage and sex life. They are in the Recommended Resources on this site.
I will also offer what I hope is a comforting thought; people change. You have changed since you married, and so has she, right? But that means there is still room for more change. Do what you can to positively influence the direction of that growth in both of you.
I'm praying for you both and the others who've commented here that they are in the same boat.
EH and CHL, thank you for your comments. First, I will say that I know I’m not perfect.
Each of us has changed over the course of time, age, and circumstances. Your advice as well as the advice of others is well founded and I appreciate it very much. I appreciate your call for hope and I do sincerely want and need your prayers.
Get help. A priest, marriage counselor, a professional of some kind. A marriage only has a 50% chance of success. A sexless marriage cuts those odds in half. Once you lost that physical connection, you become roommates instead of a husband and wife and that makes breaking up even easier. We went thru that period and we realized what was going on and fixed the problem before it was too late. We wish you well.
Thank you standerson. I’m glad you two were able to fix the issue and move forward in a good way.
Is there a way to communicate offline? Does this site have a DM option?
If you are still feeling this way, KM, let me know and I have some ideas for you to try, that may be helpful in changing your direction. The initial explanation would be more like a series of posts than a comment. Plus, I'm planning on writing a book, but haven't gotten around to it. All suggestions I make have been tested in my own "lab" (marriage) as well in the couples that I have prepared for marriage in my ministry over the years.
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Hmmm. So we have the reverse situation. I’m all about sex, intimacy, playing and making the bedroom fun. I’m 53 & my husband is 54. I sext him all kinds of stuff. I give him a blow job almost every night to try and get something back. It’s so hard to get him to even touch me. I wish he’d rub my boobs, touch me below or send suggestive texts back to me. I know he’s had testosterone issues and some other issues that are causing problems down there. But first, he doesn’t try and make the health issues better, which frustrates me because I’m trying so hard to be attractive to him so he will want to mess around. He has a shot that he can give himself that makes his dick really really hard, but of course it has to be a planned event. We used to have sex all the time & have fun in the bedroom. But I’m just not getting the response I had hoped for from him.
General thought for men and women responding on this thread: maybe think about the big picture first well before thinking about sex. Does your spouse feel honored, respected, listened to, appreciated, cherished? Does he/she recognize the specific ways that you work toward a good marriage, a good home, a good household? Does he/she see the regular, daily ways that you seek to communicate care? Not to be pedantic, but my point is that a person who knows he/she is loved will likely feel more free to move easily toward emotional intimacy and only from there be open to deepening physical intimacy. We must woo and marry our spouses each day, and certainly recommit ourselves at the various times and seasons of life. (We are in our 31st year, newly empty nesting, and navigating this new period of life.)
KingdomMan, perhaps take the long view? Think about rebuilding stages of intimacy with an eye to giving her stronger senses of being loved, and eventually feeling free to revisit physical intimacy?
Kingdom man it's identical to my life, I'm trying to fix it but running out of ideas
I feel for you. I’m sorry for your situation. I wish that I could give you some helpful advice, but unfortunately I cannot.