Is Erotic Chat Appropriate?
Hi all,
I’ve posted before, but I’m mostly a lurker here! I have a question I’ve been mulling over and thought I’d bring it here.
Clearly most here, myself included, are ok with masturbation in general, and ok with erotic content fueling that, including reading about others masturbating, having sex with their spouses, etc.
So where does one draw the line? I am thinking particularly about erotic chat with others.
There are other sites I’ve seen online—some Christian, some not—where erotic chat can occur. Is that wrong in general? Does it depend? Can one engage in erotic chat with another with the content aimed at their spouse or future spouse and it therefore be ok? Is that unreasonable?
I’m just mulling a lot of these questions over in my own mind, so I’m looking for feedback and other opinions.
Thanks!
Edited version of preceding answer.
My husband and I are children of the '60s and '70s. So if you're interested, consider this advice from a grandmother . A lot of the things that are available today we're not available then.
We didn't even have cable TV, let alone cell phones or computers .
So the availability of things today is a completely different world from the one we grew up in.
There's a number of subjects that came out in your questions The central question is masturbation.
For some, masturbation is a thing to deny themselves of, or deny to others that they actually participate in doing.
However, it's a completely normal thing for people to do, as we grow up we become curious and things begin to start in our bodies like hormones.
Here is where things get sketchy. As Christians we understand we are in a fallen world and that we are fallen beings. In other words, if the right temptation comes along we're susceptible to doing wrong. We choose to eat the fruit when We shouldn't.
The choice to do right or wrong is in our hands. The question is how prone are we to do right for the right reasons? Where is our relationship to the creator and our Savior? We know that there is a tempter, and he tempted Jesus in the desert. He has been the source of our temptation since the very beginning. We have the prerogative of either following after that temptation or shutting it down. One reason why Paul tells us to take every thought captive. He's telling us hold your horses and consider what you're doing.
With all of the things that are available today, temptations are more plentiful than ever.
Masturbation, as is the same with any thing that we do as humans such as eat, gaining wealth, drinking alcohol and a million other things. Temptation can draw us into amy one area or another (depending on our individual weaknesses) and create what we now know is reliance on and addiction too that thing. Masturbation is one of those and with the convenience of computers and cell phones we can give into that temptation at any place and anytime.(Let me stress it's not the masturbation it's how we engage in it.)
One of the problems with online masturbation or sexual chat is you really do not know for sure who it is you're engaged with. With every day that passes the sophistication of people and the ability to fool others into believing something that's not becomes greater. Along with the rise of what we refer to as online prostitution. Things like Only friends and porn production.
Sex is meant to be enjoyed between two people who love one another and want to spend their lives together. But the problem is, in this world we are tempted to have sex outside of the parameters of that relTionship. For many, once they taste the pleasures of sex, they want it as much as possible and with whoever they can have it.
( Sex, whether it's online or in person with someone who is not our life partner) Become something we chase after and Make The purpose of our life and the god which we chase. As Christians in this world we are dealing with non-believers and in some cases downright enemies to the cross.
And in the middle of all this are the money makers. The ones who only provide the platform, they say for everybody to be able to speak their piece and do what they want. As the platform providers rake in the dough while maintaining innocence in the whole thing.
To sum all of it up, My answer would be no, you should not be showing yourself or participating in masturbation which is a sexual act with somebody you do not know first of all or with someone who you are not committed to or in a lifelong relationship together.
Within the confines of monogamous relationship two people can explore manifold experiences which can bring them joy together, giving them a stronger bond and love for one another.
If you are serious about your relationship with The Savior that means all your actions and thoughts are committed as well.
For the most part whenever we participate in something and we have questions as to whether it's all right or not. The answer is almost always no, it's not all right. Notice I said almost always. That is where you ask questions like you have here. But the question to you is how will you proceed from here with the information you gather?
Go by the conscience that you have and the spirit that lives within you. Follow morals, not the morals laid out by men but the morals that are laid out by our Creator.
He knows his purpose for you he knows your future he knows what he has in store for you Believe in that trust and follow.
That is an excellent answer to the question!
Thank you for the response!
I guess what remains unclear to me is the distinction between a chat and what’s going on here. I’d categorize this forum as a group chat of sorts, so perhaps that’s the relevant distinguishing factor?
To me, it seems clear that we agree that reading about another person masturbating or riding a toy or being fucked by their spouse and then masturbating while being turned on by that is ok (correct me if I am wrong).
So it is just unclear to me what distinguishes what we all do here from this chatting.
Of course, I am definitely open to it being different! In fact I have concern about it and want to be diligent. It just is t clear to me what exactly is different about it that’s relevant to the morality/health of the activity.
Thanks!
I do love a bit of masturbation especially to some stories usually on my own but share later sometimes. Sexting is also fun way to do it with wife. Spicy for later.
Thanks for the question! It's a thought-provoking one.
I agree that the stories shared on MarriageHeat are appropriate, as they are healthy expressions of sexuality, either in singleness or in marriage. And I see no issue with these stories, and their righteous expressions of sexuality, fueling a reader's private play time. (Unless there are separate issues present, like an unhealthy obsession about the people in the story, or an unhealthy envy of them.)
In determining whether "erotic chat" is appropriate or not, we have to define what it is a bit better. I can think of two different definitions or categories that could be considered erotic chat:
1: Explicit discussion of sexual topics where the intended goal is to exchange information, advice, or encouragement.
2: Conversation of a sexual nature where the intended goal is flirtation and/or causation of sexual arousal and pleasure in the participants.
The first is something we do all the time here on MH, and something I wholeheartedly support. The second is another matter entirely.
I do not believe that erotic chat of the second category is appropriate except for married couples. I think that kind of chat is a very inappropriate, unhealthy, and likely sinful level of sexual interaction for unmarried people. Sexual intimacy and sexual interaction is meant for marriage, and nowhere else. I think it's wrong regardless of who you're thinking of. Aiming your thoughts at your future spouse doesn't make a meaningful difference here. To give a more extreme example, if a spouse was committing adultery, I think it would be of no comfort at all to know that the adulterer was thinking of their spouse while being with their illegitimate partner. It certainly wouldn't make it any less sinful. The thoughts matter, but the actions matter a thousand times more.
Now if you happen to get aroused by discussing sexual things with someone else—for instance, here on MH—I'd say that's fine. It's normal and natural to be aroused by sexual thoughts. But if you're having a conversation where the primary intent is to use the other person's words, directed at you specifically, for your own sexual gratification, that seems wrong.
As for how I think "erotic chat" between unmarried people is wrong, but MH discussions are okay, it's about the attitude and the degree of interaction. It's the difference between having a phone session with a sexual therapist or counselor and having phone sex with a stranger. I know I can tell the difference between the two separate attitudes I should have toward both of those activities. And I think most people can tell the difference if they're honest with themselves.
There are more details and complications to the matter of course, and I don't have it all figured out, but I think that explains my view pretty well.
I’ll get right to the point. With whom are you having these erotic conversations with? If a fiancee I’ll give you some leeway, but in the 80’s you could call and spend a fortune to have phone sex with what was perhaps an 80 year old woman with a good phone voice. So unless you’re in a committed relationship, with a fiancé or wife/husband, then it’s wrong.
Sorry to be so blunt.
Blunt is fine. Nothing wrong with that. The answer to your question is no one. The heart of my question is to reflect on an consider distinctions between what goes on here, and what we might call ‘erotic chat.’ To be blunt.
Literally, chatting is not sexual intercourse. Whether over a landline, or the internet. Conversation with the intent to get off is not literal, or technically, sex. So, chatting, video or otherwise, ends up being another variety of self pleasuring to orgasm.
Yet, no matter how much the married couple, or the single person intending to marry, or the single person who never got to marry, says masturbation is not a sin there will always be boundaries with God. God's boundaries are mostly of the heart & what comes out from the heart, into actions of sin. So, both the sinner & the believer have sex, but only one activity gets God's approval, because the believers willingness to obey God's lead. Yet, the believer is not instructed to stop having married sex because it looks too much like sin sex. But, Proverbs tells us not to get close to even the wayward wife's street, or house. So, obviously, we have to discern what is appropriate behavior. Some behavior will not be sin here, but would be there. This is one reason God judges the heart, not the appearance.
Orgasm is highly habit forming, very hard to stop once you have the taste of it, & very easy to do in secret (even with others). This is especially true in a world that teaches a weakened state of sexual pursuit is a great & good idea. So, where is the discernment? It is obvious that Big Porn doesn't have your back, it wants to keep the $$ rolling in. But, Big Porn has created a subculture that is just like it that carries out its will in person. With other people. Whether in the same room, on video, or verbal chat. This is highly sinful because it has nothing to do with God. The nature of it has nothing to do with caring for another person, but only to get off by them. It is the world that God says to come out of.
So, the nature of what you ask about is highly problematic spiritually, physically, mentally, & emotionally. It is not Church culture (working toward self control, marriage, responsibility, & spiritual strength that is shown in physical activity). It is a subtle little time of orgasm that opens the mind to an unguarded state that associates orgasmic euphoria with a Godless culture. Once over that first hurdle, the mind says we can do it again.
Chatting like this with christians (single or married) would have to be super heavy promoting marriage, faith, & devotion to God's plan of marriage & salvation (like ministry focus all the time) so the mind would not slip into a context of leaning on your own understanding. Plus, we are to flee temptation & not creating temptation is a part of that. So, I would not be able to approve of a christian chat scene, like this, if the spouse was not present & participating.
Bottom line this kind of christian scene would be VERY hard to create & maintain. Humans, of all faiths, have a hard time in the work place, with temptation, even more so when it becomes a closed off room of safety on the internet. I don't see this as a good fit with Jesus culture.
Proverbs 15:16 (ESV) Better is a little with the fear of the LORD than great treasure and trouble with it.
I don't think you could categorize this as " a group chat of sorts." This is really a comment section. You asked for opinions and that's what is being done here. A group chat or personal chat would be an interaction between two or more people that is ongoing and personal.
Here, there is no sharing of personal information. No interaction, no pictures sharing and no suggestive interaction.
You do have a valid point in that reading about another's sexual experiences can be a turn on and in fact produce The arousal to masturbate.
I myself have been known to do that. However the fact still remains, I do not know any of the writers. I have no personal interaction with them and what the actual arousal is about is The relation of personal experience to what I'm reading.
And what I'm actually jilling to are the feelings and images that my mind is producing from my imagination.
From what I've seen, M.H. does a pretty good job of keeping its guidelines. I myself have written some things that would not be accepted because of the parameters being outside of acceptable guidelines.
Sex is a good thing. It's a normal thing. To get turned on and to masturbate is a completely normal reaction. To feel the need for sexual release is natural.
Where the problem comes in is when we deny the natural. And when we take sex out of its accepted context. Masturbation being a personal thing. And interactive sex between a committed couple.
In both cases imagination plays a big part. And what we imagine is within The confines of our own person, until we share it with another. In the case of someone that's single engaging with another that's where there's a problem. In the case of where a husband or wife imagines something they would like to do with one or the other that is where The heartbeat of a sexual relationship is kept vibrant and alive.
If you look through these comments sections you will often see an addendum from one of the M.H. editors correcting or stating guidelines.
Your questions and concerns are completely understandable and valid. And they are not something that my husband and myself have not considered. The question of whether when we write we are putting a stumbling block in front of another person.
And since I am the one that usually writes the experiences I can tell you that there have been times that I have deviated from the true reason for writing which is to share a healthy sex life within a monogamous marriage and walked the line between information and titulation.
We are all subject to crossing the line once in awhile. But that's where recognizing and correcting our way comes in. This is where Grace comes in.
When our sins were paid for at the cross they weren't just the sins that came up to a certain point in life. They were all of our sins from beginning to end of our life.
We are still human beings with desires and wants, And sometimes we will cross the line. But life is to be…
"a constant striving towards pleasing the one who loves us."
And when I make that statement
Of course I'm talking about the one who loves us , created us and gave themselves for us.
And also, the one who is our life partner.
I'm late to the conversation as usual, but here goes
Yes, I’m very much open to erotic chat, but only with my Master. For us, it’s never about strangers or outside attention. It’s part of the intimacy and trust within our marriage and our dynamic.
Sometimes it’s soft and loving. A message first thing in the morning telling me what he wants me to wear under my dress that day, or reminding me that I belong to him, can completely change the tone of my day. If he’s away with work, it becomes a way for us to stay emotionally and sensually connected across the distance.
As the day goes on, it can deepen into something more fitting to our D/s relationship. He may command me to act out a scene for him later that evening and send him an audio recording or a private video meant only for his eyes. The obedience, anticipation and trust are part of what strengthens our bond.
For us, the important line is that it belongs inside our marriage. It is never shared with or performed for anyone else. That exclusivity matters deeply.
Oddly enough, our faith and the Bible are part of why it works for us. Submission, devotion, trust and giving yourself fully to your spouse are themes we both see reflected in scripture and in the covenant of marriage. Far from weakening our relationship, this kind of private intimacy has made our marriage stronger, more honest and more connected.
lauren
Here’s a situation that merits comments and view points . . .
I know two women that are in marriages where spousal sex is non-existent (due to a health reason) and nearly non-existent (due to spousal sexuality). They love their spouse dearly. I have never met nor spoken (by phone) to either of them. However, through years of chatting (‘met’ each of them on a Christian marriage site – not MH) I have learned a great deal about them – we do know our IRL names, spouses names, and where we live – and their and families and church and business and community life. Both women are strong Christians – one a senior and the other an empty-nester. As we all embrace masturbation, we encourager each other via chats to enjoy self-love to enjoy orgasmic pleasure that is missing in their marital bed. In my case, health issues has diminished my wife’s ability to enjoy intercourse. And , ‘yes,’ our chatting can range from matter-of-fact to sexually stimulating on occasion. My wife knows that I’m on Christian sites and she and I are very sex positive about masturbating. She’s not nice that MH can spark my desire to masturbate. The senior lady friend’s husband knows that we chat and is glad for her to do so. Is this wrong for me/us to do?
Living in a sexless marriage is tough – even when the reason is health issues.
I don’t have a clear answer, even though most people would say it’s wrong.
A few years ago, I chatted with a couple on another site (separately, but each was aware I was chatting with the other).
The discussions ranged from the mundane to explicitly sexual. He would share sexual experiences about him and her, and he encouraged me to have sexual discussions with his wife.
The chats with her were fun and explicit, but we never fantasized about being with each other. I would create scenarios for her to do with him or solo.
I did and do consider them friends, although we don’t chat anymore, and I am not a member of any other site.
The part that is hard for me is that I never felt guilty about chatting with them, even though I think I should most probably feel guilty. Although that may just be a problem with my conscience. Honestly, I still don’t feel guilty and often wish that I still had that relationship with them. But again, that may just be a faulty conscience.
My experience is not the standard, and I can’t condone what you’re doing.
Other than just enduring or masturbating, I can’t find a Biblical principle that governs this. Obviously, we’re not supposed to lust after someone else, but does chatting cross that line? I don’t know. Maybe it depends on the depth or content of the chat or what kind of feelings are involved.
Denying your spouse is a sin, but that doesn’t okay sin for ourselves.
That still leaves the question of what to do for the high drive and denied spouse.
The response I’ve settled into is Marriage Heat. Reading and writing stories, and enjoying vicariously the sex lives of others while taking matters into my own hands is what I do. Although even that is limited because I can’t share with my wife that I masturbate.
As a whole, it gives some pleasure, but it is still unfulfilling because there is no connection and no real sex.