How to Talk About Sex? (L)
The comments to this post include the occasional use of strong language (L).
Hello, everyone. Missy here.
About a year ago, MH conducted a survey asking what, if any, problems our readers perceived with their married sex life. It will probably come as no surprise that the overwhelming majority of responses pointed to mismatched libido. Most men, and some women, felt that they would like to have sex more often, with a smaller but still significant percentage saying they’d like more variety or for their spouse to be open to exploration within the boundaries of marriage.
We thought it might be nice if those of you who have seen improvement in adding frequency or novelty to your sex lives would share with your fellow MHers how you kickstarted the conversations that led to change. Or did you have to talk at all? What did you do or change that helped your partner more fully embrace the freedom God gives us in pleasing each other sexually? Or what did you try that didn’t work and you’d suggest others avoid?
And… GO!
This may seem really weird, but several years ago I found a survey online of the top 25 questions about sex to ask your lover. I read through them and some of the questions were just weird, but some made sense. I took the survey, modified it and put together my own survey. It think I ended up with nearly 50 questions. They were not yes/no questions, they were rate on a scale of 1 to 10 questions. If you were a hard no, you rated it 1. A definite yes, a 10. Something else… you get the idea. It left room for someone to show interest without saying, “Let's do this tonight.”
When I was finished, I gave it to my wife to fill out. The most important thing I did was I had a copy for myself, and I filled it out too. When we were finished, we went through them one at a time and compared answers. Not only did we find the things neither of us was interested in, but we also found our mutual strengths and individual interests. It made a huge change and improvement in our sex life.
Several years later, while cleaning out my bedside table, I found the survey. I read through it and thought to myself, some of my interests have changed. So, I put together another survey. This time I used Google Forms to create the survey. I copied the original survey and emailed a link to my wife to take. Later that night, we compared the answers again, not only to each other's new answers but to the original survey we'd taken over 10 years earlier.
Some of the results were surprising. Some of our interests were the same, while others had changed drastically. And some responses demanded further explanation and another survey.
The bonus of using Google Forms was I could add pictures and separate categories better. Suddenly there were entire sections of questions about toys, positions, roll play, etc. In some cases, photos were needed to better explain and identify items, positions, etc.
By the end, I think I made 4 separate surveys because the answers from the previous one demanded more explanation. Once again, there was an improvement in our sex life, and more spice from new experiences was tried. I wrote about this in my story 'The Heat is Still On' available here: https://marriageheat.com/2020/04/05/the-heat-is-still-on/
The most critical part of this experience, besides the surveys themselves, was going through the answers together. This allowed us to get a more detailed explanation of the answers that were given, and also, we both took each survey so we could compare to each other. They definitely brought us closer together. It's been a few years again;, maybe it's time to take it again.
Talking about sex over a few (or many) drinks has always seemed to yield hot conversation and an ability to explore new territories for us. That isn't something we do often, but when we do, I always feel we learn new things and kickstart something fun.
I've also worked on overcoming a lot of guilt and shame I would associate with sexuality growing up (thinking about sex, wanting sex, touching myself to pictures of my wife, etc.). It took a long time, but I feel this was a really big step for me in getting more comfortable with my sexuality, and thus allowed me to become more adventurous in the bedroom.
Lately, after much discussion and years of trying to expand what we are comfortable doing, we've been trying to get into bondage. My bride has always been interested in it, and here in the last couple of months, I've been trying to get better about that and my domineering, as she greatly enjoys being a sub in the bedroom. This, again, came over the course of many years of sex, building trust in one another, and pushing our boundaries of what we would typically be comfortable with together (things like dirty talk, being "rough" in the bedroom, etc.). For me, I've had to learn and remember that my bride has told me what she wants and then trust her when it is time to do those things, and that if something isn't okay, she will tell me.
As far as things we've tried or that I believe others should avoid, first and foremost is to avoid porn and pleasuring yourself to any man/woman who isn't your wife. My bride and I have both had instances over the years where we've turned to pornography and pictures of others to get ourselves off, and that does nothing but steal from your spouse. I wish I had never begun looking at images of other women or pleasuring myself to them. Another thing I'd suggest avoiding is talking fantasies about sex with others. My wife and I had done this a time or two not long after we married. We each wrote a story about meeting and having sex with another person, and I just feel that if you're going to fantasize, fantasize about your spouse.
It would be sad if my relationship were so fragile that having a fantasy about a picture, story, or another person could damage it. Every story, discussion and commentary here along with the pictures have caused people to at least be aroused if not masturbate. I think true love and commitment can not be harmed by any of that, only by lies. The hypocrisy that causes people to deny they enjoy a picture, story or the server at the restaurant—that is the true threat to a real loving relationship. If a person can’t look at their spouse and say, “Look at this picture on the top of the story on MH. Aren’t they sexy?” then they need to look deeper into their true feelings. If they feel guilty for masturbating to a story here or jealous that their partner did, they may have more serious issues.
If we are honest and real, I think everyone here would admit they are attracted by others and stories. It’s not the picture or story but the denial, the hypocrisy and the lies that cause harm to relationships, imho.
I get how you feel, Marge, but I think there are a lot of people in the world and even here on MH who don't fantasize about those they read about or see. For some, the story itself is exciting enough without imagining themselves a participant. For others, they are content to imagine the situation described in a story only substituting themself and their spouse as the characters. Some may choose not to fantasize because it hursts their conscience toward either God or their spouse, and that is okay. Or they may recognize a pattern in their habits that interferes with their responses to their spouse. Setting limits for oneself out of concern for another's feelings or one's own convictions is a loving thing to do, and it doesn't make one wrong or weak or hypocritical to feel or decide differently from some or even most other people.
But I believe it can be a relief (and sometimes kill any power to tempt) if one can express any fantasies one does have honestly to the person with whom you have become "one flesh" and trust that you won't be looked down upon for them. I know that has been true for both my husband and myself. Recognizing the stimulation of a topic or a view is much different from desiring to have another for one's own. I think we agree on that.
I love that you, Gemlin, and your wife have opened up about new desires that you both want to explore. That it took years to get there is no surprise; trust and openness /should/ flourish with growing familiarity and closeness. So happy that you've gotten to this stage in your "bonding"! Many happy tie-dings, lol.
CrazyHappy I don’t think I suggested or used the words “substitute” or “participate” in regards to the honest admission that erotica on MH or other sites may excite or arouse. That if it does, it should without guilt or jealousy. That if done in an honest manner can improve a marriage. Harm to a marriage is much more likely to come from lies and hypocrisy. When you read on MH comments about a story that they could not wait to share it with their spouse as a prelude to sex, that does not require substitution. I know we have this long difference of opinion on porn vs erotica vs MH stories. But in effect, all turn people on. Almost always, that benefits a marriage. The response was to an admission that they enjoyed porn, so your point of some people not wanting to use it becomes irrelevant to this situation. What we agree on is honesty and openness are important. Difficult to do that when you are trying to pretend you don’t enjoy something.
Meant nothing by comments, nor was I trying to throw shade at anyone. I understand how my wording made it seem that way. That's on me. What I meant was that for my wife and I, it is something that can be a stumbling block for each of us seperately. Scripture talks about how some things that are difficult for some isn't for others. One of the things I love about this site and community are the people who are comfortable and free about certain things that I myself have tried and found weren't for me. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was trying judge others; that was certainly not my intention. I appreciate you bringing that to my attention, so that I can do better in the future about choosing my words more appropriately.
Be transparent. Inspect together with openness, respect, and integrity. Then adapt with courage and confidence. Continue that forever. Inspect and adapt. Be better tomorrow than you were today. Apply that to your married sex or every part of your life.
Be strong. Be courageous.
I think that for many couples the first step is for both spouses to be comfortable talking about sex at all. In many cases involving frequency, the deeper issue is that one or both are not really able to discuss sex easily – they are okay doing it, just not talking much about it. If a couple is able to sit down and talk about the issue without getting overwhelmed, that’s a big start in itself.
I speak from my own experience and from what I’ve learned from others, so I might make an entire post on this.
We would welcome that! Thanks!
Being open to negotiations when your marriage has a desire discrepancy is very important. My wife, Melodie, & I had, & still have to a lesser extent, a tricky situation that required us to talk about sexual things. We are both survivors of childhood sexual abuse and are grateful that we had both the atonement of Christ and good therapists to help us heal.
We each saw therapists (more than one) well before we met, which helped us in our discussions. We also both stayed close to God. Of course, we were not perfect, but we know no one is. (Hence the atonement of Christ.) As a result of therapy and faith, we were in a far better situation when we married than some survivors of childhood sexual abuse. We both have to be patient and kind when one of us gets triggered. SOME sexual things we will never do—and that is fine. There is so much we CAN do.
I was very careful on our wedding night & on our honeymoon not to introduce too many new things for fear I might trigger bad memories for her. In fact, I was quite careful for the first year of our marriage. I had been married before, so I was experienced with marital sex. Melodie was not. I knew she had been sexually abused for eight years, but that abuse had never included vaginal intercourse. Before we married, we abstained, but Melodie expressed to me some trepidation about marital sex before our honeymoon. But With patience and God’s help, our honeymoon was great! It included Melodie gifting her virginity to me, but it did not happen on our wedding night. Still, it was awesome when it did!
We did not have sexy lingerie or oral sex in the beginning because I did not want to trigger my wife. We only did missionary and doggy-style sex positions. But at one month of marriage, I bought Melodie a sexy bra and panties set, and while doing foreplay, I slid the panties aside and gave her oral sex. She really liked it. (So did I!) Then to my surprise, she had me roll over, and she gave ME oral sex. (It was incredible too!) Though we didn't talk about it beforehand, there was a different kind of communication at work there.
I did not cum in her mouth for 20 years because she let me know she didn’t like that. She also noticed that giving me oral sex on the bed triggered her, so she did it in the shower for years. It was foreplay because she’d give me oral for a few minutes, then bend over in the shower, and I’d pound her pussy from behind. Because we were able to communicate, we were able to agree on a workaround.
But it wasn't all smooth sailing in the communication department; sadly, I would sometimes start a quarrel because I wanted oral more often. But along the way, I learned to be grateful for what was on the sexual menu that day and not be disappointed that some “dishes” were unavailable. In fact, she often doesn’t like receiving oral, but when she’s in the mood, she loves it. In fact, 25 years into our marriage, we had downsized and moved into a condominium. Melodie liked the small shower, and I used the shower tub. But one day, I slid into her small shower while she was bathing, and since it was cramped, she just bent over to give me a BJ. For the first time, I came in her mouth. (Again, very amazing!) After that, she sometimes would let me cum in her mouth.
Our worst sex conflicts happened after we retired. We were so tired before we retired, so I thought we could have way more sex now that neither was working or caring for kids. It didn’t work out that way. So at my request, we saw a sex therapist and eventually set up a sex schedule that made a big difference for us! We highly recommend it for couples struggling with mismatched libido. For several years, we had sex every other day with Melodie usually going for an orgasm just every other time. Now our health limits us to sex every three days, but on off days my wife helps me to orgasm in the morning due to my sky-high libido. Because of my heart condition, we usually have sex in the morning, and sometimes, we still have a spontaneous & unscheduled lovemaking session.
One aspect of our sex schedule is that she gives me oral on holidays and special occasions like our anniversary & my birthday. She will still surprise me sometimes with a very nice unscheduled BJ. For example, the last two years in a row, she has surprised me with a BJ on HER birthday. It seems talking it through and agreeing on a schedule that satisfied us both relieved any sense of pressure and gave her the emotional freedom to generously go above and beyond at times.
Over the years, I have encouraged my Melodie toward gradually becoming more sexually adventurous. It has worked well to patiently make suggestions or requests, some of which she has taken to with enthusiasm! And she’s cum up with some kinky ideas herself! (Pun intended.) Sometimes we just have very pleasant “regular” lovemaking, and other times she is off the charts in her passion and wants to give & receive way more oral and gets kinky as well. I think my MH stories relate both of those types of lovemaking. I'd encourage folks to remember it is ALL good.
There are other ways your spouse might "communicate" a willingness to branch out without talking. As an example, Melodie initiated sexual activities in the car & out of doors.
Writing stories for one another might be another way to communicate with low pressure and that can lead to playing them out. We sometimes do roleplays based on stories I've written, and they get my wife as sexually charged as a thunderstorm! The idea of roleplaying and some of the other things we’ve tried came from MH. Thank you, fellow MH writers! (I have a series of stories about our most recent roleplay “cumming” up soon about one we did last fall called “Elf Loving.”
Again, if marital sex has a menu, then we both know to be grateful for what is on each lovemaking day’s menu and not be disappointed. That is probably the most important advice on this topic we could give. Besides, the occassional intense & kinky experiences have been seared into our memories, so we know there may be other items on the sex menu another day.
If health issues get in the way, adjust or adapt like we have learned to do. It almost always works out with us both being satisfied and grateful. After all, we easily could have already been separated by death. In fact, I had a heart surgical procedure three days ago, and yet we made love this morning! We both cum during our lovemaking about 95% of the time, which is remarkable considering our health challenges & medication side effects. But sometimes one of us can’t have full sexual intercourse due to health problems, and we have learned to plainly say so and then do other sexually exciting things AND to be patient.
So in conclusion, be kind & patient as you open up to each other with your fears and hopes, and be willing to try new things. And finally, remember to pray about your sexual relationship in your marriage. We even say silent prayers for each other during lovemaking sessions.
Hey, Missy, sorry my comment is so long but you asked so I answered.
Hi Missy, great topic…
I'm writing you early Sunday morning, about an hour before first Church service, and about seven hours after entertaining our two best church couples we love dearly. It was a fun evening filled with good food, wine and very stimulating conversation. Jim took me once in the garage (yeah, romantic, eh?) and he gifted me an amazing orgasm as he ate me expertly in our guest bathroom. This may pertain to one of your questions: our level of desire for each is truly pretty close. We made a deal with each other about 10 years ago that basically says that when one partner is very horny, the other partner services him/her with a "quickie" orally or a nice fuck. Concessions are always made in cases of illness and headaches (although I have been relieved in the past via a good, hard fuck).
I am mentioning this because I am now thinking about your sex survey, and Jim and I agree it's a good idea to reexamine the genesis of our sexual relationship habits in order to refresh and reenergize our sex lives.
Take our very close group of church friends we just entertained for example; they now represent a kind of liberation movement to free some of our self-imposed limits of sexual expression. I admit that I am the one who started our liberation movement when my necklines began to plunge, and more of my body (especially my breasts) became more visible to others. Jim and I both found the reaction of others to me VERY stimulating.
So our current "church friends," themselves seeking to break some of their own sexual barriers, felt drawn to us.
Sharing our personal feelings about innocent cockteasing would never have been in the cards until Jim and I sat down together and discussed our feelings about our "sexual security," meaning how secure we felt releasing some of our inhibitions for others to see. It was our way of boosting our self-confidence – and wow, it really worked.
We would NEVER consider participating in an orgy, but our small group seems to supercharge all of our libidos. Jim and I have never been afraid to talk sex to others, unlike our friends were in the beginning – now they get even more explicit than we are at times!
I also believe that only a few years ago, I would never have decided to help my sister Barb with her reluctance to be a more dominate lover to her husband. I taught her how to unleash her hidden sexual desires and greatly enhance her orgasms. She is now proud of her hot body and freely exhibits it. Again, only a few years ago, this would have been impossible.
Although Jim and I are now quite evenly matched as far as libidos go, it wasn't always the case. Early on in our marriage, I know Jim was so turned on by my body that he wanted to flaunt it at any opportunity when we were around others. After indulging him for a year or so, I finally shared my concerns about it. We talked for hours about it, even in a private session with our Pastor, who we could clearly see left our session with a huge bump in his crotch:) The bottom line emerged: we agreed we were very secure in our relationship, and we were confident that a little T-and-A exploitation shouldn't hurt, so we very slowly began playing around with this. Now we are able to discuss intimate sexual details with a chosen few, and it really enhances our sex with each other.
Hope this share is okay. Thanks.
Patty and Jim, Hubbie here: Thanks for this post. It reminds me of a soccer field. I know, what is wrong with this boy? Hear me out. The best teams use the whole field, and don’t stay clustered in the middle. They range far and wide, even playing on the line, but not going out of bounds. (in soccer, the ball is not out of bounds until the entire ball is over the entire line. This leads to a lot of confusion for folks who don’t know this rule.)
So frank discussion and less hangups about a little more provocative dress and attitudes seem to be in-bounds, and well played “on the line.” You both are very clear that you’re monogamous, and don’t engage sexually with your friends. Sounds edgy, but still in play. I think there’s great sexual power around the edge of the field. You both seem to experience that. As we both posted, if we find heat and bring it to the marriage, bed, that’s powerful!
Yes, it’s risky, and not everyone can do it without going out of bounds, so each couple needs to figure out where they can play on the sexual field. Constant communication, and practice, broadening out while still in-bounds seems healthy for a couple’s growing sexuality. With care, the marriage bed gets hotter and hotter! Stay passionate!
The stronger your marriage the more able you are to walk the line. And walking that line makes your marriage even stronger. But if your bond is all “soulmate” talk but not able to trust with no jealousy better stay well inbounds.
Hubbie here: I love the concept of this question, and so far it has only lead to 143 different ideas. Oh boy, my mind is spinning! I’ll try and split them up, but before I think about what to talk about sex, or how to talk about sex, I think it’s important to think about why talk about sex at all?
My theory, #3, is that God created sex as a powerful bonding agent in marriage. There are spiritual aspects to it, physical aspects to it, emotional, etc., and God put it specifically inside of a monogamous marriage bond between a man and a woman. It’s like nuclear power, and marriage is the lead-lined crucible to hold it.
Certainly, Queen and I need to be of like faith, and pray together and minister together. But I can do those things with other people. The key, unique, powerful relationship thing that I do only with Queen is fuck! And the more we do it, the more intensely we do it, the deeper and more powerful our marriage grows.
Our vision statement for passion in our marriage, is …
A passion so intense, that others just
know somethings different, unique.
And. They. Want. Some.
And as we age, and our abilities wane, we need to focus more and more intensely, find new ways to express our desire, and fight our way around barriers! Or we give up. That’s just not our style! A solid, biblical WHY which honors God gives power to our WHAT’s and our HOW’s.
More to come. Stay passionate!
QueenandHubbie,
My wife n I fully agree that as we age we need to focus and find new ways to be sexual with each other. We do! And like I said in my comment, it’s fun discovering new ways to be sexual together! And we don’t mourn what we can no longer do – we discover new ways that replace the old ways.
Hubbie still here: Several of my theories, including #11, #14, and #19b follow from the WHY theory above. God created our bodies and sex before the fall and declared everything including these “good.” Let’s be specific, He created cocks and pussies and clits and balls and asses and breasts and tongues, oh, my!
So rather than start from the premise that ”no sex is good except …” (which, unfortunately, many churches do), we start from the other end of the continuum, saying “all sex is good except …”, and let God‘s Word guide us to eshew* those limited, few aspects that God clearly says are out of bounds.
(*come on, in how many posts have you seen the word eschew? There’s real vocabulary value here, folks.)
This is like a Manifest Destiny for sex between Queen and I and gives us a very wide range in which we can pleasure each other! What do we talk about? Everything we can that is in-bounds. No embarrassment, no shame, just wide-open, free-ranging, frank talk about pleasing each other in so many ways.
A specific list would be too long, but suffice it to say that if it’s between us, monogamous, in-bounds, and honoring the marriage bed, we talk about it. And our focus is if we can do it, we try to do it. Why? Because God has given us the creativity to use his created blessings to please our spouse sexually. Why hold back?
Of course, each couple needs to use this freedom gently within their particular relationship and histories. But challenging extra-biblical boundaries is worth it! I hope to put these theories together in a future post, but I don’t want to make this comment too long. Stay passionate!
Queen and Hubbie,
Thanks for your valued input about Jim and my sexuality. One thing I can’t emphasize enough, is the fact that when we “Shake loose” a little and flaunt together what the good Lord blessed us with, we do so with a VERY few select couples (two church couples (I wrote about) a married couple I knew in college, and a couple Jim introduced me to, also from college. We all love and respect each other and we share together a spirit of sexual openness that is platonic and exclusive. It’s almost like a very lesser degree of a nudist retreat in our private homes where things are hands off but friends are free to observe quick glimpses of each other in conversation, hot tubs, etc. Such get togethers often end when a couple feels an urgent need to leave in a hurry to “tend to things back home.”
We all understand and offer a knowing smile.
Thanks again for your input, and we have a sexy good time occasionally and stay well within our well-structured boundaries. And this play really gets us horny as hell and keeps our sex life incredible!