Is Fantasizing about Infidelity while Masturbating Okay?
Here’s a discussion topic I feel is worthwhile, and perhaps liberating.
Considering the fact that my husband Jim is my one and only lover and best friend, is it terribly wrong for me to conjure up other men and women participating in my fantasy sex scenarios?
Truth be told, Jim is ALWAYS the dominate figure in my “Creamy Dreams,” but these wet ones usually feature other participants who stoke my flames, such as other men and women who I flirt with before eventually claiming my ultimate prize: Jim’s magnificent cock! I also often enjoy the others watching me sucking him deep while he makes a meal out of my creamy pussy.
So, is my kind of fantasy show okay as long as my star is Jim?
Does anyone else ever feel this way? Please share your true thoughts on this topic. I will enjoy reading yours while “relaxing” with mine!
How does your husband feel about it? That's perhaps the most important question.
I don't believe fantasizing about others is wise, and I don't see how it honors monogamy. Just because it turns you on and makes you desire sex with your husband doesn't necessarily mean that it's right – because it should be exclusively your husband.
I would have to agree with you. When you intentionally place others in your fantasies, you are lusting for them. We should not be lusting for anyone other than our spouses, or trying to get others to lust for us. That is only for husband and wife. Just because we use this extramarital fantasy has a primer for our spouse, doesn't make it right. I can't say I've never done it, because I have, but it is not right.
hey, thanks! truth is, Jim loves my wild sexual imagination and often asks me who is participating with us – in there words, he loves it when I voice my fantasies… I love it, too, really!
To be honest, this is a question I struggle with also.
It’s more difficult for me in that I have no sex life, so all of my orgasms are self-induced and fueled by some fantasy or scenario cooked up in my mind.
Some of these fantasies and scenarios bring guilt and some do not.
Flirty scenarios, as long as there’s no intention to actually seduce, are okay I think. As are scenarios where others are just watching and masturbating or fucking their partner while they watch.
Each must set their own limits and boundaries I guess, Thanks for your thoughts!
By all means, share your masturbation fantasies with your spouse. Find out theirs. It spices things up. The joy of fantasy is it’s just that. There is no way the reality can ever live up to the fantasy. Instead, it invariably disappoints. But if you suppress it because you think it’s wrong, you won’t succeed their either. Neither will he. A lie is far worse than a thought. That being said, I can’t orgasm thinking about another man. It always winds up with my spouse. Think about fantasies as exercising your sexual creativity. What can you do together to keep things interesting?
My exact feelings, Naughty!
There was a time in our marriage where if I were to know the true fantasies that my husband was having I would have probably filed for a divorce.
Looking at them now and what we've done together. I look back at the attitude I had then and realize that I was the one that was ignoring truth I was the one that was denying truth.
Were two people enter into the sacred bonds of matrimony and monogamy their agreeing to accept and will still love their spouse no matter what they find out about them. I read another response to this where one person with jumping to the absolute worst examples that if we accept one thing does that mean that we are accepting the extremes. And that was my mentality as well. When I was trying to be serious about my faith I was looking at everything that was outside what I was following and trying to be is being character of the absolute worst of the humanity. I had adopted the thought process that we were doing terrible things together before we had become serious about our faith and I had to repent for all of those things. And we do actually have to repent of things that we have done and we will continue to repent because we will continue to sin and do wrong as we learn and grow.
But it is an absolute irony that people who enter into this intimate bond together cannot fully be honest about all of the things that they think and feel with that person because they are fearful of loss or judgment.
Our Creator knows everything that we do, and he also knows that just because we make a decision to follow him it doesn't mean that we are going to become a spot free saint. He knew we would fail from time to time in many ways as we sort things out and grow.
The marriage bond is sacred and the intimacy shared between two people in that Bond is the most sacred part of it. That means baring your soul to one another as well as your body. Knowing that as we are still loved by our father despite our thoughts our spouse will still love us despite our thoughts as well. That's why we are called the bride of Christ it's the ultimate vision of what the church should be like open honest and forgiving and loving.
It doesn't mean that you can't have fun together. For crying out loud if sex was only meant for procreation do you think it would feel so good? If food was only Meant from nutritional purposes you think it would be that enjoyable? I'm sure you've heard as well as I have that when people are starving they will eat things no one in their right mind would have considered eating just to try to fill their hunger.
And just the same if you are starving from not having your sexual needs met by the one person that you are pledged to and they are denying you because they think that's the right thing to do. It's going to make you begin to look elsewhere and find your satisfaction.
If you can't be honest with you don't spouse about everything if you can't work out your problems together if you can't find forgiveness from the one who says they love you with their whole hearts then that is the sin! That is the problem. Acceptance and Truth are what are necessary for everything to work right.
Lady L. ❤️💋
Hi CreamyPatty
I really appreciate you opening up this topic. It's such a liberating question to explore.
For me, fantasising about others while I masturbate isn’t something I struggle with. As long as it stays in the mind, I believe it’s part of the creative freedom God gave us to enjoy our sexuality. Master Joe and I have an open and trusting dynamic. We often share our fantasies, including who we think about or imagine in those moments. As you know from previous comments and stories, there are no secrets between us, only connection.
Of course, he’s the only one who gets my body, and that real-life intimacy is sacred. But in my mind, I sometimes invite others in: men and women. I love imagining them seeing me surrender to Master, watching me on my knees or spread out for him. For me that is what really makes me play with myself.
So yes, I think your creamy dreams sound perfectly ok, and honestly, very exciting.
Thank you for sharing them.
With love,
Lauren
Love you Lauren – and yes, I do love your stories, and Jim and I have discussed you and your master a few times, while my master is fucking me anywhere and anytime as he pleases!
Hi CreamyPatty,
Love you too! That made me smile so much, and mmm, just the thought of you and Jim talking about us while he’s taking you, anywhere and anytime, is seriously hot.
I might just have to read your reply to Master Joe tonight… I have a feeling it’ll lead to something delicious.
Thank you for your kind words. I always look forward to what you share. Your energy is contagious, sexy, and so real.
Opinions will always be mixed. Interestingly, reading through the comments, I get the impression that we girls tend to have less trouble letting our minds wander. Some say fantasising about others is unfaithful in itself, while others believe it's completely fine. Ultimately, we’ll all stand at the pearly gates one day and make our pitch. I believe that if you’re rooted in good values, honest with yourself and your partner, and your heart is open, then we should get in.
With Love
Lauren
You always come up with some interesting questions, my creamy kindred spirit!
Early in our marriage, I accidentally popped in on Mike while he was masturbating. As a young married woman, I knew he masturbated, and he was undoubtedly aware that I masturbated, but it was one of the first times I had seen him do it when he was doing it specifically for himself. My curiosity led to a discussion (we’ve always been very communicative about sex and intimacy), which led to the question, “What are you thinking about while you masturbate?”
For me, it is most often Mike, but not always. To be very honest, I do think about other men, and the scenarios vary. I could be blowing them, fucking them or, (and this is a big fantasy of mine), in a group sex situation where I am being fucked by or sucking multiple men. In these scenarios, the men are ambiguous; they have no real identity and are, for lack of a better term, sexual placeholders in my head. Ultimately, for me, it is a fantasy about the loss of control. I have in the past masturbated while thinking about specific men, and while I am not 100% sure what I think about infidelity in that regard, I don’t think it’s healthy, which should provide a clue.
I have also fantasized about women, though I have not had a sexual encounter with another woman since before we were married, it is a fantasy that persists and I can make myself cum thinking about it, but again, it’s rarely a specific person.
I think it’s important to say also that most of the time, I do not seek these fantasies out; they seem to manifest as I masturbate, or they are inspired by some of the work here. I see people regularly on this forum replying that a post got them hard or wet and that they “took care of business” while reading it. Both Mike and I have done the same, many times.
I know people who believe that masturbation by itself constitutes unfaithfulness. Certainly fantasizing about a woman as a woman is questionable, as are thoughts of other men, perhaps even the vague and fictional ones. Some might say that what happens between your ears stays in Vegas? I’ll have to reflect on that.
I look forward to seeing the responses here. Ultimately, the relationship I have in the real world is exclusive and loyal, and my one desire. The rest is fiction.
Sarah, I so love you – […] think multi-orgasmic!! lol
[Edited by MH: After further consideration, we've determined that this comment is in conflict with our guidelines. Specifically, fantasizing about other MH members and encouraging MH members to fantasize about other members do not align with our mission. Some controversial topics are allowed for non-erotic discussion purposes, but as written here, this content is in conflict with our marriage-centered mission.]
Aw, I love you too beautiful!
If the posts here are fuel for masturbation, yours and Jim's are rocket fuel. I really appreciate your post, it's thought-provoking. And, you already have me thinking of next time!
I think that if most of us were completely honest with ourselves. We have had thoughts about other people. Not to destroy anyones believe that they would be the one and only person to fulfill every desire of their spouse. But the fact is there is always someone else who is attractive to us. It could be the way they behave, their sense of humor, or the way they look and carry themselves.
My husband, M. And I had a long discussion about this. And I think we women tend to think this way about our men more than men do about women although men tend to have more of a possessive jealousy than women.
I was insult denial that I would find anybody else attractive but I did. Of course it was always secretly and I would have never confessed it. But after a long conversation one night it was a part of our sexual revolution that I finally admitted that I did find other people attractive. This later on lead to my confessing my attraction to other women as well.
Would I ever have acted on them? Of course not!
Had I ever entertained, thoughts about possibilities? At times I will stop that thought process in its tracks. At other moments depending on how I'm feeling I will entertain them.
One of the things that came out of our discussion is that we confess to one another when we find somebody attractive. After that we will both discuss what it is we find attractive about a person. Between the two of us this will often evolve into a back and forth story about somebody and what would happen if we were all there. For he and I, by the time we get into it we're both so worked up that we can't keep our hands off each other.
We have discussed what it would be like to actually act it out and participate in some of these things that we roleplay together. But we always weigh it against our faith. The fact is our faith is the most important and always wins. We know all too well that things like this are out of bounds.
quite often when we're out having dinner or perhaps at a festival we may see someone that one of us finds attractive. And there have been times in our personal moments we're a sex toys come in as the extra participate in our sexual fantasy.
M. Like many men always says how much he would love to see me with another woman. And quite often he has another woman in mind when he's thinking about who it would be. And being that I am attracted to other women as well as men I can easily go along with it. He on the other hand isn't so much attracted to men but he will go along with something that maybe I am fantasizing about. And he does admit that he does enjoy the fact that I'm handling something else while he's the one inside me . Or that my mouth is wrapped around a toy while he's inside of me. Or a vice versa..
And of course he absolutely loves and I start giving him a play-by-play of what would happen between another woman and myself. Depending on her personality I would either be the dominant or submissive one in my mind and words.
In other words, we don't hide it from one another in that eliminates secrecy and lies. We admit the truths of life to one another. And we've overcome jealousy and insecurity.
Anybody who is serious at all about their faith here will agree that there are definite limitations to what a monogamous relationship is about. The question is how do we defend our monogamous marriage against that?
For us it's truth and honesty, for us it's putting aside jealousy in security and possessiveness. If anything has happened in our marriage as a result of our changes it's growing stronger we love each other and treat each other with such respect and love that others comment about it and ask us our secrets.
Being that we are our age heading into 70 people often think that there's some of wisdom that we've gained. And we have we've gone through turmoil in our marriage and have come out the better for it. When we tell people what it is we tell them what I just said. Truth and honesty about living in this world and life in general is essential for a good strong relationship. Jealousy has no place in this world or in our relationship possessiveness has no place and insecurity has no place because it's our job of each of us to make sure that we let the other no constantly that they alone are the love of our life and our lovers.
Use the weapons that are intended for your destruction against your enemy and use them to your own advantage, and don't allow the perversity of that which is natural which is God-given to answer in and destroy the goodness state has been provided for you.
Lady L. 💋
SO well put and candid, your usual style. You are SO sexy, dear!
Since this is a topic we've been over several times on MarriageHeat in the past, I've had the chance to condense my thoughts a bit. (Yes, this long reply is my "short version", haha!) I'll do my best to keep it focused on my own feelings and practices, to minimize hurling accusations or causing offense. Obviously my beliefs about my own behavior has implications for my beliefs about others' behavior, but my goal here is to simply present what I believe and why, not to demand that anyone else live a certain way.
The title of the post and the body of it could be taken in different ways, since the title mentions infidelity specifically, but the body leaves it ambiguous. Lots of fantasy is acceptable and even healthy. But I feel it is dangerous and unhealthy territory to begin fantasizing about infidelity specifically, in the sense that the infidelity itself is part of the turn-on.
Here's the standard I use personally: if a situation would be sinful if acted out, it is unhealthy to fantasize about it for the purpose of self-gratification. (That goes for sexual and non-sexual things. For example, it also doesn't feel right to fantasize about slapping a politician I don't like, even if they're doing seriously evil things.) Such fantasizing would be unhealthy for me and my relationship with my wife, even if we were totally committed to each other and there was no risk whatsoever of those fantasies becoming a sinful reality. Just because it doesn't lead to physically cheating, that doesn't mean there aren't other potential downsides, or even inevitable downsides that just aren't immediately recognized.
For example, if I were to indulge in fantasies of infidelity, or if I discovered that my wife was doing so, that would lead to me feeling very emotionally disconnected from her. I would feel like one or both of us wasn't fully invested in the relationship, and was wanting someone else over the person we had, and were committed to love. That would severely impact my heart and my sense of intimacy with her. I recognize that not everyone feels that way, but that's how I'd feel.
It also feels spiritually unhealthy for my soul to intentionally imagine acts of sin in a positive light. I just cannot see any good coming from that. And if I have a proper view of how indescribably evil even the smallest sin is in light of God's infinite righteousness, holiness and glory, then I struggle to see how I could even play pretend for a single moment that sin is actually somehow acceptable, much less somehow use that imagination for my own enjoyment.
If the thought of a sinful sexual act turns me on (and there are admittedly some that do), that in itself is nothing to be ashamed of. We all have certain sinful things we're attracted to, or in other words, certain temptations that are more enticing than others. Being tempted is no sin. The sin is in how we choose to respond to temptation. I chose to revel in those thoughts instead of fighting them, there would be a problem. If I were to use fantasies of sin for my enjoyment, to me, that says my heart does not fully belong to Christ. It reveals a part of my heart that is not fully sanctified, not submitted to him, and perhaps in a way not even repentant. If my heart truly belonged to God, then I would love what he loves, and hate what he hates. If God hates adultery, so should I. And I think it's fundamentally impossible to hate something and enjoy fantasizing about it at the same time. That's ultimately what it comes down to for me.
On a more positive note, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by adhering to this restriction. I don't mind rejecting fantasies of adultery, because I know that there are so many fantasies that preserve the marriage context that are still wildly erotic, and yet don't disrupt the relationship. I prefer to focus my creative energy there, rather than on something that feels emotionally and spiritually destructive.
I often think of other women when I masturbate. It feels safer and less a slippery slope than fantasizing about other men as I do not think I would ever actually act on my women fantasies. I sometimes also use fantasy of other women when I am struggling to get it going with hubby. Instantly wet. 🫣
Yes and yes! I agree to all Sarah Colorado says… […] Fantasies are natural and healthy as long as they stay there. Thank you Sarah for spelling out my mind. The sex machine and fantasies and hubby make life rosy 🫦
[Edited by MH: After further consideration, we've determined that this comment is in conflict with our guidelines. Specifically, fantasizing about other MH members does not align with our mission. Some controversial topics are allowed for non-erotic discussion purposes, but as written here, this content is in conflict with our marriage-centered mission.]
@hotwifey78 – ❤️❤️❤️ Sarah
This is going to be provocative, but I think the problem it presents should seriously be considered. For those who believe that so long as it remains fantasy, fantasizing about things that would be sinful of acted out (group sex, infidelity, etc.) can be acceptable if they remain only fantasy and turn each other on: would you say the same for pedophilia or bestiality fantasies? If no, why? While yes, those aren't consensual and I agree a different category of wrong, non-monogamous sex is wrong, too. So why would the latter be ethically acceptable and the former not? Give it some thought.
@HappyHubs
It is indeed an uncomfortable question, but one that I think is perfectly relevant. I brought up a very similar point in some of my past comments when the MH community has discussed this topic previously. I have yet to see a convincing argument explaining why somehow it's okay to fantasize about SOME sexual sins, but not okay to fantasize about others, like the ones you mentioned. To be logically consistent about our moral frameworks, I think all those fantasies have to be put in the same category: "okay" or "not okay". I don't see how you can split them up. And if you put them all in the "okay" category, that basically opens up ANY kind of fantasy, which I think is a WILDLY dangerous place to be, physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Very good point, Hub! Wow, I'm loving all of the open and honestly sexy chat on this issue. It's early morning and Jim's away again – any ideas anyone? 😉
I think the fantasizing should be confined to those that honor the marriage. Sure, they can push boundaries and get more risque than is realistic, but they should be about monogamy. So things like public nudity and sex, for example, could be permissible if it's about the couple's devotion to each other rather than primarily a show for others. Basically, the guidelines MH has for that – intentionally and primarily demonstrating for others would be unethical, but bystanders incidentally getting a view would be permissible, imo. Whatever the fantasy, it should be about finding pleasure from your spouse
I don't really do that. My mind just thinks about the dirty filthy things I've done to my wife or new locations to do them to my wife.
MMMMM, nothing wrong with the direct approach, stud! Nice …
As a single virgin I don’t have the experience to give that perspective but I personally think this is wrong.
If you’re married, you spouse is the source of your sex, your body is their body and vise versa. Opening this door is playing with matches a little bit.
I certainly wouldn't recommend any mental wandering until you and your mate are secure and comfortable talking candidly about your innermost thoughts and desires. But, in the meantime, it doesn't hurt tapping into your desires and expectations … I'm just sayin'
Completely understandable. I’m a virgin but I consider the “Ben’s kinky wife” story that involves a fantasy where the wife asks about other women turning on her husband. It’s a fantasy but in reality that might be playing with matches
Fascinating and poignant discussion question! It is something I've thought a lot about too, and I admit I don't have all the answers. One general thing I have discovered: if I let myself turn to sexy videos or photos or writing every time I masturbate, I feel like I'm stuck with that, like I need it to get stimulated. So more and more I just employ my thoughts and build on hot marital fantasies, like being on my honeymoon or being ravished by my future husband in an unlikely location. That has been really freeing for me. I'm way more satisfied afterwards, and I feel like I experienced true intimacy (as much as one can with an imaginary spouse! 🤪). Now, I still enjoy erotic material; I've said before that men's butts really turn me on, and there are only a few niches where good video angles of that are common, mainly gay porn. Thus I'm working through whether it's right to watch that even if it's not at all the same-sex activity that turns me on (it doesn't). Sometimes my fantasies do involve non-marital scenarios, though I never imagine specific people or faces. I admit that an Ancient Roman orgy is an arousing idea. But again, my fantasizing always comes back to my future husband. I cannot FATHOM giving myself to any random man. It literally repulses and grieves me, it's so impossible. I want to honor and love Jesus, and I want His love to flow through me in how I interact with my future husband, so I'm trying to carve out my sexual beliefs and practices based on that. I think fantasy is more of a fun thing, and sharing that with my man would be amazing. But we would both be committed to keeping our desire aimed at each other.
interesting and complex subject this one! Just like Kingdom Man and a few others here, I'm in a sexless marriage, so, if not for the power of the mind and fantasy; I'd be in a pretty dark place! whether right or wrong, the mind produces all manner of thoughts, helpful and unhelpful. It is for each individual to work with the mind, observe what comes up and decide whether to let thoughts and dreams exist there or to train your emotions away from them. Everyone will have different boundaries; and its up to each individual to establish what works for them and their marriage. All I know is that without fantasy there's no way I could have remained here or remained faithful, right or wrong, its just a fact of my situation!
❤️
Well said starlight!
LLL, GIRL YOU ARE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR!
Whatever I read your words I am in awe of your dedication and the way you keep yourself.
You are to be commended for your attitude towards sanctification.
One of the things I wanted to comment on was what you mentioned about using graphic materials to supplement your self pleasure.
There are studies that show how people who fall into this habit of using graphic materials often masturbate in a certain way and they become accustomed to it.
And sometimes this can lead into a problem for a marriage. That it can be difficult to achieve arousal and orgasm if it is done the way that one would basically be training themselves to do in order to get off.
It's something for all of us to think of. And something more is the fact that we have to be careful not to come to the point of what we call worship of idols.
We can make a thing into a god by spending our time pursuing it and sex can be one of those things.
When we're called to separate ourselves from the world that means that we need to keep in mind what it is that we're allowing yourself to agree to. The grace that paid for our redemption was something we have to bear in mind because it bore the greatest cost.
We read in the Old testament over and over were Israel would bow to the idols of the inhabitants of a land and often sex was a part of that.
When we partake of the things that are held before us tantalize and lure us we can begin to soften our stances and lose sight of who we really are.
We have been given much freedom and with Grace find that we have an ability to be forgiven when we do send but, We have to bear in mind yes that there are limitations to what we are allowed to do.
Lady L. 💋❤️
Thank you for that wisdom, Lady L! My goal is to never let anything sexual enslave me, or become an idol.
Lauren, Just wanted to let you know that I, too have been smiling ever since I read your sweet and sexy comment about Jim and me. And I was really smiling as I had a thunderous orgasm …
CreamyPatty, I was sitting in living room reading your posts and comments with my hands all over my body 🥰 […] I came twice and was loud and messy and everything. It was a pure fantasy and will give it more details when hubby is back […] 😊On couch I woke up from post cum nap well tucked into a blanket. Maybe K was watching 🙂
[Edited by MH: Matter-of-factly discussing what goes on in fantasies is one thing, but we ask that you (and all community members) tone back the erotic and flirtatious descriptions of fantasizing about other MH members. Remember, folks, this site is about MARRAIGE heat. What you do privately is your own business, but in your interactions here on MarriageHeat, let's stay aligned with the mission of the site and focus the heat on our spouses, not strangers on the internet.]
CO, I was mildly confused by your question. I think you may be more of a person like me with exhibitionist tendencies and desires.
Personally, I don’t fantasize about other people when masturbating, but I do fantasize a lot about being watched, whether by myself or with Vanessa. I have also done some “audio exhibitionism” and knowing other adults can hear my sounds thru walls or, ahem, on some audio posts online, is incredibly thrilling. Knowing others are listening and maybe touching themselves too. Is that bad? I see it as a bit of a gray area.
Now if you also think of actual sex with others, I think that’s a common fantasy. I’m not saying it’s moral or biblical, just that I think it’s fairly common.
Psychologically, you probably feel so satisfied with Jim’s large anatomy (and know he has high self-esteem due to his size) that your fantasies when described during your time by yourself or with Jim, do not threaten your feelings for him or his confidence.
I’ve noticed the two or three women on MH (one of them being you) that have shared your husbands are unusually large, tend to be a bit more wild (in a good way) in regards to confidence and just overall sensuality.
I think there are always dangers with exploring these gray areas. But I’m just trying to explain what I see as the psychological aspect. Keep in mind that while I have worked in the mental healthcare system and my father has studied psychology, I myself am not a psychologist or anything like that.
I think for me, I would be nervous if Vanessa was having fantasies including other men. Probably because I am not as endowed as some of the larger husbands on MH, and I don’t think I’m the largest man she’s been with. So I may have more insecurities than Jim would have in that regard.
Vanessa helped with my self esteem by pointing out that my balls are unusually large, and she says my dick is a bit larger than average. But in our culture, penis size is what makes a man sexy, so I imagine being married to a very well-endowed man might afford your marriage a bit more flexibility in these areas, in that Jim would not feel nervous or like maybe he’s not enough, in the same way I might.
Sorry for going so in depth, but does that kind of make sense?
I’m trying to say that I think you’ve got more flexibility baked into the cake due to your husband’s size. Strange as that sounds.
As a Christian, I still believe actual sex with anyone other than one’s spouse is wrong, but you were talking about fantasies and I think the biggest thing is making sure your husband feels safe and loved in the midst of these. And you said it actually turns him on! How fun 😃
Northern sky, your comment could be a discussion post on its own with the exhibitionism, audio exhibitionism, gray areas and penis size.
Any of those would be great topics, but I really only want to comment on the penis size issue.
I think a lot of men struggle with insecurities in this area. While it’s true that there are some some super-sized erections walking around, the “average” statistic is there for a reason.
Other than a psychological hangup that, IMHO, trickled down from the porn industry’s promotion of exceptionally large guys, there’s no reason for you or anyone to feel less of a man because of how long or thick your penis is.
The vast majority of men fit into the same category, and I dare say that most women couldn’t care less.
What makes a man is his character, integrity, and actions towards his wife and others.
An “average” penis is more than capable of satisfying a woman. Comparison will steal your confidence for no good reason.
Anyway…not trying to go on a rant, but I did want to encourage you.
@KingdomMan
Thanks for the encouragement!
I agree that an average size is adequate. MH has stated that exact size measurements are preferably kept to ourselves, and I want to respect that. Suffice to say, I am longer than the textbook average, but definitely not as long as some of the largest MH husbands. I however am notably on the thin side of the average range. While I know I am fearfully and wonderfully made, I am also quite painfully aware of my limitations in that regard. There are certain sexual acts my Vanessa was able to enjoy with the man she was with before I met her, that would cause me discomfort and possibly risk penile fracture due to my shape (a so-called “pencil penis”). I’m not saying that’s bad, just that I am a realist.
CP herself stated “Truth be told, Jim is ALWAYS the dominate figure in my “Creamy Dreams,” but these wet ones usually feature other participants who stoke my flames, such as other men and women who I flirt with before eventually claiming my ultimate prize: Jim’s magnificent cock!” All I meant was, the fact that her Jim is built that way is obviously a point of pride and enjoyment to her. And I was trying to explain that him being that stunning in her eyes probably neuters (sorry, I couldn’t think of a better word)— some of her more “wild” fantasies and keeps them just that: fantasies. Simply because she already has all she could ever want in what her husband has.
I agree that the porn industry has given an unhealthy standard for both men and women. However, I also know that some aspects of people’s bodies can be impressive, and in various ways. As I have said before, Vanessa has more impressive breasts than probably a good 90-95% of the ones I’ve seen in porn as a youth. And that’s not easy to do. But, she also has her own insecurities due to some struggles she’s had with her weight. Similarly, I had insecurities about my penis size and shape. Particularly cause some mutual friends let slip some stories how the last man who was in a relationship with Vanessa was unusually well endowed. However, they also said that he was immature, and on the contrary, one of the things that drew Vanessa to me was my maturity and confidence. She herself has told me that I am a very intimidating/impressive man to see walking down the street, and she always feels safe when out with me (I look a bit like a darker version of the old UFC fighter Don Frye, or some people say a scarred-up version of Freddie Mercury).
Hence… We all have our strengths, and we all have our weaknesses.
And like you said, Comparison is not healthy. Everyone is stronger —and weaker— than someone else in SOME regard.
As always, thanks for your valuable input, and for your kind words!
Northern sky,
I had to google Don Frye, but that’s a pretty impressive dude 😂
Also, it sounds like you’re pretty grounded, and that’s good. I just don’t want guys to walk around feeling insecure because of some attribute they can’t control.
I’m only saying this because I’m pretty kinky, but there are great sex toys available that would enhance sexy play. Penis extenders for one, and also strap ons that would allow for more rigorous activities…😉
@KingdomMan
Thanks! And about the whole size thing and men’s confidence issues, I completely agree with you, and I’m glad you said what you said. 👍🏼
Let me start by saying that yes I have fantasized about women other than my wife while masturbating and even while having sex with my wife. I have gotten great enjoyment out of these fantasies, but we should not confuse what FEELS good with what IS good.
We need to recognize the difference between finding someone attractive and entertaining sexual thoughts about them. When Jesus equated looking at a woman with lust with adultery, he was saying that what is in our heart is just as important as our actions. God gave us great capacity to enjoy sex, but He protects us by giving us boundaries.
So is it wrong to get turned on when we see an attractive woman (or man for you ladies) or by reading a steamy story here on MH? No, because we are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex and this is a natural reaction.
But where is the line? I would say that intentionally entertaining sexual thoughts of someone other than your spouse is crossing the line. While arousal is a natural response to stimuli, acting on that arousal requires an intentional choice whether it involves another person (adultery) or not (lust). It's like taking something that belongs to your spouse and giving to another, whether it is your sexual thoughts or actions. We should be jealous for our spouses as God is jealous for His church. This does not mean tyrannically forbidding your spouse from ever interacting with or being friends with the opposite sex, but being willing to fight for them if those relationships become more than friendship.
This also could very well be the first step toward actual adultery because once it is a fantasy it is no longer "unthinkable." We need to guard our minds, because our actions flow from our thoughts. Adultery should be as unthinkable to us as other sexual sins like pedophilia, beastiality or even homosexuality. I try to focus my intentional sexual desires only on my spouse. (I should note that I no longer imagine another woman when I am having sex with my wife. That was a rough time in our marriage that we have overcome by the grace of God). Be careful friends where your mind wanders because the hands are not as far behind as we may think. Instead, focus on your spouse and deepen your sex life with them.
Lust, a heart sin, does not equate with adultery, the act. The 2 are different aspects of the same sin. Both are sin, but Jesus never says lust alone qualifies for divorce & remarriage.
God does not get jealous as easily as we might, or might think. Naaman, in the OT had to dip 7 times in the river to be healed. That's a popular story. Yet, the rest of the story says that Naaman became a follower of God, through his healing experience. Then, he asked that God would give him a pass (forgiveness) when he went back to his pagan country, & helped his pagan king worship his pagan god in his pagan temple. Elisha granted Naaman that pass. Naaman took Israel dirt back home & devoted himself to the one true God, but helped his king worship in the temple of another false god. That's part of the story is not widely known.
God doesn't get jealous because of thoughts. Walk by a false god temple, step in it & look at the architecture, sit through a service to that false god for info & God won't get jealous. But, turn from God to worship a false god & see how you create your own worst enemy. God knows the true person when we do not even know ourself.
I wanted to comment on the penis size issue as well. I get what Nothern Sky is saying and us men can be very insecure about it, porn and our culture can really make a man insecure. I have been there as my wife had a partner that was very well endowed before we were married. Now she told me because I asked and at first it did make me feel insecure. That was early in our marriage now 24 years later we openly talk about it and she has told me details. We are secure in our marriage and I am secure in myself. Because of our faith and love for each other it has helped me conquer my insecurity. She talks about it to me because we our secure and she knows I am secure and she can talk to me. Without going into great detail I can say size is not everything and most of us are in the realm of average and do just great.
Thank you Victor,
Yes we are in the same boat. I struggled a bit with that as well. My Vanessa is thankfully honest to a fault. Though I am not nearly the phallic monster her former partner was, she has praised me for my physical strength (I can carry her and her ex could not), and my fighting ability and the way I make her feel safe.
We men all have our strengths and weaknesses, and I’m just glad that she ended up with me & loves me. Sounds like you feel the same way about your wife as well.
This is an issue of liberty. Where, in our faith, we can figure out the truth of the matter & that truth will seem closer to the sin than what is commonly thought. Whatever, the issue you will have sides of pro or con, not a sin or is a sin, based on a persons conscience, belief. So, it comes down to belief vs, liberty. Where some will believe they are free to indulge an act without it being a sin, but others will believe it a sin to indulge the act.
Bottom line is that God says to choose to love the weaker believer, that believes the liberty is a sin, rather than indulging your liberty. It is actually a sin against God, & the weaker bro or sis, to cause them to stumble in their faith, potentially causing them to stumble away from Christ.
However, if you keep your liberty to yourself, &/or no one is caused to stumble, nothing going against anyone's conscience, we are able to have certain liberties, as long as the reality lives up to the guidelines of scripture.
But, this dynamic creates a problem because we may want something that is ok to do, but is not correct to do because of the weaker believer. We may get pushy for what we want. This is wrong. We are called to love our fellow church members over ourself. Yet, this does not mean we cannot discuss it with them. We can debate. We can even teach one another. However, if the weaker member insists on their weaker stance, their conscience has to be upheld. This is the point God would have us know, before ever indulging a liberty.
So, is fantasizing sinful sex a liberty? Obviously, a fantasy is not actually having sex. A mindful thought is not the actual sex act. No one would ever think that thinking you did the nasty counts as actually doing the nasty. Especially, if you are the spouse that sex is being withheld from.
So, fantasizing, is not sexual immorality, either.
As always, fantasizing is not lusting, either. It can be, sure, but it doesn't always have to be. The bible word for lust can be used to desire a good thing, or a bad sin. Hence, lust is the translation when it comes to sexual sin. Plus, lust, is not just any ordinary desire. It is coveting, meaning, you will do the sin sex if you get the opportunity. This willingness to sin can either be a contextual lifestyle, or a one time immediate choice. Either way, it is a moral failure of going to do the sin, if you ever can.
Lust is not knowing a sin exists, or acknowledging a sin. Nor, is lust a temptation, where you are enticed to sin & enticed to please God, at the same time. Lust is the decision to sin. Sin is ok in your book & you will not hesitate to do it, if the chance arises.
But, then some would ask, why entertain yourself with sinful scenes, & scenarios? Why would a believer want to do that, when Jesus clearly doesn't do that. Let's call a spade a spade. It's because we are sinners, & Jesus is not. Some people can go through life & never have a sinful thought, I've never met one, but there could be one out there. We don't all do the same sins. My experience is that our minds orbit our past experiences, porn viewing, &/or curiosities. Whatever info we let in is basically the makeup of our mental play. This would mean a person that has stayed pure in mind & body sexually would have the best potential to have a pure thought life. This is how I see the dilemma of why a believer would entertain themselves with sinful scenes. As the juices of arousal flow our brains pick from the cast of characters & scenes already available, from vague no name faces to very detailed naughtiness.
Obviously, since we are here talking about this, not everyone can just shut this off. It happens. I would say a majority of all people have, or do, think of scenes of sexual sin. Maybe, always, or just once in their life. The brain is an organ that thinks as its function. Arousal tends to get met with the brains many abilities to play out very detailed textures, heat, tastes, & tickles. If we let it.
But, have we ever thought why we let it happen? Back to the fact that it is sin. I believe fantasizing sexual sin scenes is a liberty, I don't judge. I do it myself. However, I also think it is a way we can indulge a desire linked to a fear, a past, or a habit. These things can go unchallenged & end up bad for the marriage. As long as these things are under control, we are allowed to remember ourself. Desires, a past experience, or a habitual fixation can be a part of our memory that we liked. It is not wrong to remember a sin as something you liked, as long as we know it is a sin & we are repentant of it. A right resolve can access these things & the marriage thrive. But, also, indulgences can be a marriages undoing.
We cannot fool ourselves. Fantasizing has a reputation of wanting it. This is the biggest problem between differing spouses. One hears the other's fantasy & thinks they are not enough, or the fantasizing spouse wants to step out on the other. This creates hurt for the weaker spouse, or other church members you may confess to. We have to know our spouse & seek contentment with God. He knows best. His will be done.
I do believe the marriage should be a place of maturity. We should grow up to embrace the reality of sexual sin & righteousness. I would love nothing else than for my marriage to be an open discussion of all things sex, good & bad, right & wrong, mistakes & good behavior. I would love to have no divisions sexually, & otherwise, & we truly live up to what a marriage is; two being one. That we let our wedding rings, marriage license, & vows lead the way. We tackle it all with our marriage vows & Jesus intact. Confessing, forgiving, & enjoying it all to the overall peace, security, & sexual play that is all because we get it. We are not roommates. We are family. What we left, father & mother, we left to become. Siblings, family, married. The closest dynamic of knowing each other as we can get. Holding nothing back. No limit to being wife. No limit to being husband. All God's doing. We don't put locks on our heart to keep the other out.
I tend to believe that marriage moves on & matures once all the locks are taken off & we are allowed to roam through all thoughts freely. Locks on our marriage creates sticking points that don't allow us to move on & grow together.
The key is a team effort. Going with & not coming at one another, in God's Word.
If you can, work your fantasies out together. That is best. However, the two of you want. Just make it bow to your marriage, not the other way around.
It all bows to Christ.
IDK if im right or wrong, but one of my spiritual opinions is: THOUGHTS CANNOT SIN. Just because we think something, it’s never a sin — including thoughts of sinful actions. Thinking about robbing a bank never turns sinful until actions are taken. So this truly frees me (us) to have all the fantasies we want. It never has to lead to ACTIONS of infidelity.
Jesus says otherwise. He taught that our desires can be evil, too. Whoever lusts after a woman has already committed adultery, for example
I agree with HappyHubs here, although I also see where Fearless Lunk is coming from too. I think some disagreement may stem from the fact that there are different kinds of thoughts about sin. For example, a police officer or detective might think about sinful things a lot in his line of work. He may be thinking about assault or bank robbery, but it's for the purposes of preventing crime or bringing justice to criminals. There's nothing at all wrong with thinking along those lines.
Likewise I don't think it's sinful for him to have a brief, passive thought about committing a crime, coming to mind unbidden, as long as he recognizes it for the evil it is, says "no" to it, and puts it out of his mind.
But if he chooses to dwell on a thought of assaulting someone he doesn't like, in order to gain some kind of satisfaction from that imagination, that's wrong.
Some thoughts come automatically without us intending to think of them, but we can also choose what we think about, and so some thoughts ARE actions. Just because thoughts don't have an immediately apparent physical manifestation, that doesn't mean they're not actions.
Putting our faith in Jesus, or trusting another person in a more mundane sense, are things we DO. They are actions, even though they're not PHYSICAL actions. They're actions of the heart and mind. So you can't completely separate thoughts and actions, because many things are both thoughts and actions at the same time.
Knowing about sin, is a thought, but not a sin.
Acknowledging a sin & thinking that sin may feel good, but never intending on doing it, is not a sin.
Desiring, being drawn, to the indulgence of sin, but also being drawn to please God is temptation, not a sin.
Lust is when the thought becomes sin. Lust is where I am going with the sin, & no longer going with God. Lust intends to sin. Whether opportunity arrives, or not. It is not the actual act, it is the thought that drives us to commit the sin. It could drive you to commit the sin act, or it may stay in your mind & you never get to act it out. This is lust. Different from all those thoughts & desires above.
I have to dissect what PP says. I would see that choosing to dwell on a sin "in order to gain some kind of satisfaction from that imagination," as being wrong if it is a lust. Meaning he always wants to do it but just never gets opportunity. That would be a sin, as a lust.
However, if there is never any intent, no matter how many time's opportunity shows, but is only fuel for masturbation it is not lust. It's not even temptation. A person can just get off on the thoughts & that be the only intent. Like people liking horror stories, or murder mysteries, ghost stories, or real crime drama. People can get the excitement from those sinful aspects as a secure place to play in their mind, only. Millions of people love horror, & murder mysteries, & never commit, nor desire to, murder. It is a thing.
IMO, God judges it sin if lust is there, the intent to commit is the sin. Otherwise Jesus sinned because temptation is a desire to sin, albeit mixed with righteous thoughts to please God. Jesus had sinful desires, as a man. But, never turned from God & went to obey the sin, lusting & going to do it.
I get it, it seems wrong to dwell & seek out adulterous thoughts. But, as I see it, that can happen without ever intending to do aldultery.
If you think that the LUST Jesus speaks of is just thoughts/desires, then I would argue you are misunderstanding “lust” – not me discarding Jesus’ words. To use my analogy… if you think about robbing a bank, not lust/sin. If you fantasize about what you’d do with all that money, not lust/sin. If you make an action plan, reserve a getaway car, and recruit a team of thieves – THAT is lust… that is the sin of intent even though the robbery had not taken place. I stand by my position (and I would argue the Bible’s position) that thoughts alone can never be sin.
Lust = desire. Jesus is talking about desiring someone else's spouse, even in thought. That's the whole point. There was agreement that actions of infidelity are wrong. Jesus (in keeping with a faction of the Pharisees against a different sub-school) went further and said that even entertaining a desire for infidelity counts as adultery. Your premise that desires can't be wrong is unsupported, and then you try and fit those teachings into that false premise. Paul, in keeping with Jesus, explicitly says that evil desires are part of the old carnal nature of a believer (Col. 3:5). And God after the flood in Genesis acknowledges that humans even in desire are evil continually, but he (God) will have mercy. So it's a theme throughout the Bible. You can decide that you reject that teaching, but it's there.
I've heard this idea from multiple MH members that "intent to act" is a key defining requirement for lust. I've never understood where that comes from.
Based on my reading of several different translations, the way Matthew 5:28 is structured grammatically suggests to me that "to lust" (or "to desire") is the intended action that defines "adultery in the heart." There does not necessarily have to be any intent to act physically on that desire. Intent to act physically is not mentioned anywhere in the passage. Again, based on the grammar of the sentence, the intent to desire is itself enough to qualify as the sin of "adultery in the heart."
Here's the same grammar in different contexts. If I look at a ball with intent to kick it, then "to kick" is the action I intend to take. If I look at a piece of food with the intent to eat it, then "to eat" is the action I intend to take. If I look at a woman with intent to desire her, then "to desire" her (or "to lust for" her) is the action I intend to take. The intent is to act (or make a choice) with the heart and mind, not the body. The intent to act physically with the body to fulfill that desire is a separate issue entirely. It is the next step after we have intended (or chosen) to desire, which is an act of the heart and mind. But this passage makes no mention of intent to act physically. It only addresses what's going on in the heart and mind.
I've brought up this point before, and I don't think anyone has corrected it in a way that makes sense scripturally. But if someone has a better, scripture-centered explanation, I'd be eager to hear it and learn more.
Now, to be fully transparent, I'm not sure whether "to lust" or "desire" means exactly the same thing as fantasizing, although they seem at least very similar to me. However, what is more clear is that, as the grammar shows, it's pretty clearly saying there can be sin without any reference to an intent to act physically. I don't see how else that can reasonably be read.
PP
You make a valid point. But, I just can't divide it up as you do. It would not be a lust if the act of sexual adultery were not a part of it. Adultery is the sin act. Lust is the pre-thought associated with the sin act. Making lust a sin act of the heart.
No matter if the person commits the sin act, lust is still lust to commit adultery, by association. Jesus connects them in verse 27. I agree you can lust, & harbor the coveting in your mind & never commit the act, & possibly never think you will. But, that does not stop lust from being associated with the sin act. The intent is there, however the variation of reality plays out. They can even be ok with not acting it out & think it'll never happen, though they would, if they could. This is the very nature of sin of the heart. It is desire aimed at sexual sin. Like greed is aimed at money, & gluttony is aimed at food.
If the person does not desire to commit the sin, yet desires to imagine doing the sin; by definition, & by association, this is not lust. At best, it is a normal thought that a person can't easily shake because of culture, past, or habits. Like an alcoholic will remember their drunkenness. Maybe they know they will never do it again, but have a fondness for those times. It's just a memory, or curiosity, but not a sin, as is. At worst, this is nothing but a temptation. Which God warns all day long about falling to temptation. Yet, this even, is not a sin.
You say the person is lusting to desire, or just desiring to think lustfully about her. With no intent to act. Then it's not lust. Lust is guilty of intent. By, Jesus words, lust is associated with the sin activity of adultery. Without the intent, it is labeled something else. Not sin, not lust.
Albeit something to be careful with, & probably not do. Because, sin is crafty, & can get a hold on us when we are not looking.
As much as I would caution against it is not a sin, if there is no intent. This is where I am. Maybe, we just agree to disagree.
Wow this a really good discussion!
Everyone makes really good points.
I haven't struggled a lot with fantasizing about others since I've been married. Before I was married it was a lot harder and I was struggling with porn. I try to keep that out of our marriage bed, I haven't thought about anyone else besides my wife during sex and when masterbating. But the idea of another person really turns me on and I have a fantasy that I have talked about with my wife where I have thought about a ambiguous woman and me and my "crew of workers" came to work on her house and ended up fucking all of her holes at the same time and took turns. It was a very hot masterbation experience and I even wrote myself a story based on it.
I will admit though a few months ago I struggled for a few weeks fantasizing about having a threesome with my wife and her sister. I don't think this is right and haven't shared it with my wife even though I would like to get her thoughts. During this time this fantasy was coming up My sister in law was having some problems in her marriage with her husband and she was making comments to my wife about things that I do for my wife that she is jealous of which turned me on and led to some threesome fantasy in my head that were really really hot but I obviously would never pursue it.
“ I will admit though a few months ago I struggled for a few weeks fantasizing about having a threesome with my wife and her sister…”
Wow, brother, while I make it a point not to indulge those thoughts, I admit I can totally relate.
Again, I think it is more than ok. As long as they stay as fantasies. When husband is watching me masturbate and telling a fantasy details aloud he lose control and lives euphoria, and cums like crazy. He loves to make these infidel fantasies, pushing me to wear tell tales clothes and be ‘nice’ to friends and at gatherings and in public. When back home our bedroom would turn into a garden of joy and heat..thank u CreamyPatty. I’m naked now and playing 😘
I just joined you-and Jim is also here, helping …;)
I once had a fantasy of taking a shore excursion from a cruise ship.
In the fantasy, I fucked my woman on the beach. The ship was anchored about a half-mile offshore.
While we were fucking at the edge of the water, she came really loudly. Then, all of a sudden, we could hear the roar of applause and cheering from all the people watching on the deck of the ship.
That's about the most risque` thing in my fantasy life.
I mostly enjoy just good-old dick-in-pussy fucking, one-on-one, with my wife (when I had one).
Hoping to find another one that thinks the way I do.
I love that fantasy, TO47! Wish I could have been on deck for your penetrating performance!
I believe in what the Bible says about coveting your neighbors wife. Also that you shouldn’t have impure thoughts about people you know.
I used to fantasize about my neighbor who was a beautiful sexy younger woman. I realized that it was totally inappropriate for me to think of having sex with her. My late wife told me that when she masturbated, she made up totally imaginary couples. I would right erotica, and she loved to read them. But my story’s turned out to be fictional married couples.
Now that shes been gone for 13 years, I still think of our romantic relationship together. Or I read stories here on MH. I never put myself into the stories, but I envision the people as if I was a bystander in the room.
Be mindful of your thoughts, and keep people you know out of your fantasies.
Probably my favorite comment so far on this topic. Well said.
I agree Sarge. "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28. That is not my opinion. That is straight from Jesus. I only focus my mind on me and my bride in my fantasies. I can put us both in the stories told here since the marriage bed is pure…it's just me and my wife experiencing sex where it was intended to be enjoyed. In the bond of marriage.
If your fantasies give you pleasure you should enjoy them. Sex is mostly mental. Pleasure is a gift from God, a gift he gives us to enjoy. I'm sure your husband understands this and will encourage you to experience sexual pleasure in every way possible. You and your husband should indulge in fantasy and sexual pleasure together or individually in whatever way you choose and enjoy every second of it. You should celebrate sexual pleasure and never let anyone make you feel an ounce of guilt for doing what is normal, natural and healthy.
This question opens up something, obviously, christianity is not comfortable to tackle. The Bible is clear that we are to be careful not to fall into sin. Solomon warns his son to not go down the street where the wayward wife lives. Don't go by her house. All that is about the thought life. But, it is not about the thought alone being a sin. It is where the thought can take you that God cares about most.
When David was confronted about his adultery & murder, God did not punish him for thinking bad thoughts. The prophet Nathan said on behalf of God, "Why have you despised the word of the LORD, to do what is evil in his sight? You have struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and have taken his wife to be your wife and have killed him with the sword of the Ammonites." God directly spoke to the adultery & murder, alone. God did not say, oh & you lusted. God never said, you should've never even thought about it.
When God confronted Adam & Eve, He didn't say you lusted to eat of the tree. He didn't say you entertained yourself with notions of eating the forbidden fruit. No, all He asked was,"Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"
There is no Ten Commandment that says, thou shalt not think about sin, in your mind.
I tried to make this point back when I asked when do we lose virginity. We personally can come up with all kinds of reasons as to why we like or do not like something. But, God is judge. There is definite lines drawn & God is clear where He draws the line. Lust & the act is where God judges. My finger doesn't pull the trigger unless I will it. My dick doesn't go into another woman unless I will it. God takes this into consideration. We act because we will it. It is all one sin. Two sides of the same coin. I will the sin in my mind/heart & that guides me to the act of sin. This is the 2 parts of sin, under the microscope. This is why when God judges He only speaks to the act, because the lust is part of the act. No matter how much time elapses between the two.
The temptation is not mentioned, because it is not a sin. Only something we are warned against.
Knowing, acknowledging, & arousal of a sin are not mentioned within judgement either, because they are not a lust if they are not guiding to the act. They are just thoughts.
As a child we really do not have to be taught that marriage, 2 parents, is exclusive. We teach ourself, as that child, that mom & dad are perfect & never ever consider another outside the marriage. Yet, as we grow old we learn how wrong we were to think that. We learn marriage does not stop attraction, memory, or knowledge. It is a human characteristic to have the created component of these abilities in us.
But, we wring our hands & deny this because we taught ourselves the wrong definition of exclusivity in marriage, & allowed it to take such deep root in us.
Because of sin, our righteousness is compromised. We're broken. Now, God comes & saves us. So, we have to work at self control. Paul, in the Bible, says he was taught about coveting by God's law. That, in a way, he is now tempted because God tells him not to covet. We can't get away from our sin unless Jesus washes it away. And then, we still have our flesh to contend with. Our best is only to control ourselves, in Christ. We can & do this with His help.
So, I don't judge what Creamy is saying. I take her at her word, that adultery is not a thing in any of it for her or her husband.
I am with tucht that husband & wife are to be as open & honest about it all & can still understand, empathize, & stay joyously married.
God knows all our thoughts, scars, & habits & He still is our Father. We foolishly impose our fears on the other spouse & demand they live by them, instead of God's word. David & Bathsheba lived through what they did. Adam & Eve did, too. The crime was not erased from their memory. All of humanity had to know their crime, & they thrived through it. Church needs to grow a pair, & a backbone. Sweep the eggshells up & burn them up in the trash. Instead of walking on them. Creamy knows her own heart. Her husband's too. I can't judge past what is said. If she is fooling herself, she will find out, & we will too. But, why do I want to condemn her for a fear I may have? I don't.
This is what I see in the Bible. Yes, be careful with your thoughts, because they will lead to sin, if they can, at all. Other than that, control yourself.
Thanks Creamy for asking such a real question. Thanks for your vulnerability. Respect.
Thank you all for being a real church on MH. It does my heart good to see this much discussion. You are all awesome. Thanks again.
Thanks for the support SCMM, and I understand that many in here are more judgemental than transparent. While it has been a real joy being on this MH site, Jim and I have discussed leaving here for more compatible pastures.
Our best to all, nice being with you in my fantasies…
Creamypatty out!
Awe dang. Sorry, to hear that Creamy. I wish you 2 would stay, but I understand. God's blessings & my prayers go with the both of you.
Thanks for all your participation. I will miss you. My mind & my cock will miss celebrating marriage sex with you.
CP I’m going to miss your comments. Hope I didn’t offend you. 😢
should any of you care to stay in touch, reach me at […] Bye all!
[Edited by MH: Sorry to see you go, but goodbyes still aren't an exception to our policy about not sharing private contact info.]
I’m really sad… 😔
Sorry, well, you can write me …;)