Song of Songs 1:3 and MH Poll about Going Braless
Braless in Public Poll
Loading ...Questions for Discussion in the Comments:
Women: Can you share your experiences with going braless in public? If you’ve chosen to go braless, how do you feel about the possibility of attracting attention from others? Additionally, what are your thoughts on the relationship between your personal faith and the decision to go braless?
Men: When you notice a woman who is braless, does it evoke feelings of lust? Would you be comfortable with your spouse choosing to go braless? How do you react to the idea of other men noticing your spouse if she is not wearing a bra?
Dare Question for Couples: Do you have any stories about how going braless at home or in public spiced up your marriage? We’d love to hear about your experiences in the comments, or feel free to write and submit a story detailing your adventures.
Song of Songs 1:3
Song of Songs 1:3: Because of the savor of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
Metaphors and Interpretation
“Because of the savor of thy good ointments:”
- Savor: Refers to the pleasing fragrance or aroma. It symbolizes the allure and attractiveness of the lover’s physical presence and character. He has the “scent” of bringing blessing to others.
- Good ointments: Represent the qualities, virtues, and physical attributes that make the beloved desirable and attractive.
“Thy name is as ointment poured forth:”
Name: In this context, it signifies the reputation and character of the beloved. It’s the essence of who they are.
Ointment poured forth: Suggests that the beloved’s reputation and character are like a fragrant, generously shared, and well-known ointment.
“Therefore do the virgins love thee:”
Virgins: Here, “love” denotes admiration for someone’s physical attractiveness or character. Their admiration arises from the lover’s qualities and presence. This statement emphasizes the lover’s appeal without implying jealousy. The beloved playfully suggests, “I understand why other girls consider you a catch.”
Sacred Text – 1 Samuel 18:6-7 It happened as they came, when David returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul, with tambourines, with joy, and with musical instruments. The women sang one to another as they played, and said, “’Saul has slain his thousands, David his ten thousands.”
Heat Conversations:
Qualities and Virtues: What qualities or virtues do you find most alluring and attractive in each other, like the ‘good ointments’ in the Song of Songs verse?
Reputation and character: “A good name is more desirable than great riches, and loving favor is better than silver and gold” (Proverbs 22:1). In light of this wisdom, how do our reputations and characters, akin to our ‘names,’ contribute to our desirability and attraction to each other?
Enhancing the ‘Savor’: How can we continue to improve the ‘savor’ or fragrance of our love to make it even more alluring and irresistible to one another?
Jealousy: Are you the Jealous type? The wife of David was jealous that David was praised by the people. How do you deal with Jealousy in your marriage?
My husband and I have a little game. Once in a while, I am available to meet him at his work for lunch. He likes it when I come bra-less while meeting him for lunch. His friends think he is the luckiest guy to have me for a wife. Honestly, it kind of turns me on. I have a story or two to share about that.
We should compare notes sometime Katie 😉
Have you ever got so turned on that you went to the ladies room to masturbate? OK. I admit it. I did that last week at Hubby's work. When I came back to the eating area, my tits were on "full display". I saw Hubby's hard on and masturbated when I got home. I texted him everything I was doing in the bathroom and at home. The moment he walked in the door and then into the kitchen, he mounted me from behind against the counter. I am taking my bra off right now!
Hi, good questions.
I admit, I have always been blessed in the breast department and I have always enjoyed the aura of sexiness that surrounds them when I put them on display while braless – but I feel my very sexiest while Jim is with me and witnesses my "free spirit" with any audiences. He loves my rack and we both enjoy an occasional flaunting while I'm braless.
Being pretty small-chested, going braless makes me look like a pre-pubescent girl, unfortunately. I prefer not wearing a bra because it's way more comfortable, and I read that it's good for strengthening chest muscle. But it just doesn't look appropriate. Plus, living at home, I don't want to appear immodest or be a stumblingblock to Dad or brothers or brothers-in-law. I guess I'll save that for if I get married and treat my husband!
Why would you worry about being a stumbling block for anyone? personally, I refuse to view myself as an object for the male gaze, if they stumble it’s on them. Men will stumble if a girl is completely convered anyway. If a man has an issue and blames women for him stumbling than that is his own issue. Ladies, never let a man treat you like an object or a stumbling block and please don’t view yourself as such. Your value is not about what you wear. My family and I don’t view eachother in that way so wearing no bra around the house has no issues, I hope your family has never made you feel like that.
So…I’ll answer the question you posed for men.
Seeing a braless woman is sexy, and even refreshing that she is being so daring. It may invoke feelings of arousal, but it doesn’t invoke feelings of lust.
I agree 💯 with how you described it. Knowing a woman is braless is a huge turn on for me. BUT, I only want to have sex with my wife. I can get turned on by seeing a glorious pair of nipples stretching a blouse, shirt, etc., without it resulting in me lusting for someone other than my wife. I also love it when my wife is braless. She’s only done it in public a few times, and always when out of town.
I can't think of going braless without thinking of the connotations of feminism and women burning their bras back in the 1970s. These days it's probably not a political statement, but still. I don't really get turned on by seeing prominent nipples so whatever.
As far as your questions: I think reputation can make or break you. It's far better to have no reputation than to have a bad one! Of course I hope everyone speaks well of me but then I can't control other people, only myself. As a man I certainly have physical things that I'm attracted to for better or worse, but beyond even that I think a woman with a pleasant voice, especially with an accent, can be extremely sexy. But outside the superficial, I am attracted to women who are intelligent, creative/artistic, funny, kind, friendly, generous, outgoing, thoughtful. The hard part is that I have to see a lot of those boxes ticked before I really find her Attractive. I would have no idea how to enhance my own savor, but I suppose just working on myself is going to do that hopefully–be the best version of myself.
On jealousy: I might be the jealous type. I don't know, because I haven't really dated. I guess I don't really know what behavior should make be justifiably jealous and where I might be overreacting. But the assertion that Michal was jealous of David…I assume you're referring to Michal? I seem to remember she wasn't happy with his undignified dancing when the Ark was recaptured but I thought that had to do more with perception over what behavior/standard of dress was fitting for a king rather than any jealousy. I went back and reread it in a few different translations and I guess there was something in there like how exposed he was to even the lowliest of servant girls, but I'm not sure I would make the same connection you have.
On the subject of jealousy: our pastor did a great sermon about the words "jealousy" and "envy" in Scripture, and actually, jealousy is a good thing. In one passage (where it is I can't recall), God says that His name is Jealous! The Bible does condemn jealous envy, but jealousy itself is a protective, loving possessiveness over something dear to you. I heard a quote that said something like, "Being envious means the thing doesn't belong to you. Being jealous means it does". It's not supposed to be a negative emotion.
He is jealous for me
Loves like a hurricane
I am a tree…
Hubbie here:
* When you notice a woman who is braless, does it evoke feelings of lust? – Yes, of course it does, it should. I was created a sexual male! Breasts and nipples turn me on! But, but, but, the “lust” I feel is the “strong desire” part, not the “for her” part. I’ve trained myself over the years not to lust FOR a person. I bring the heat and strong desire back to Queen. Her breasts “are real, and they’re spectacular!” (To quote Seinfeld)
* Would you be comfortable with your spouse choosing to go braless? – again, yes. I love the sexual freedom it would represent in her, and the seductive message it would send to me. I can “hear” her say “Get turned on, Hubbie, because these tits are for you! Come suck ‘em. I love that all these others can see them, too!”
* How do you react to the idea of other men noticing your spouse if she is not wearing a bra? – I get nicely turned on that others would notice my wife and be turned on. That’s the exhibitionist “values” in me, that being “on show” is hot. When we go to the nude beach, others see her, and I love it!
In survey answers, the 2nd is kind of assumed in the 1st. “Completely acceptable – Comfort and personal choice … come first.”, but it always “Depends on the context – Certain settings may be more appropriate ….” Church, school, little kid birthday parties, etc., are good choices to turn the headlights off.
I also feel “church folks” are too prudish about sexual stuff (probably many on MH feel that to some extent.) If we’re shopping or yard-working, and Queen is “on display”, and church friends or neighbors show up, why is Queen having nipples a national crisis? Get excited that we’re in our 60’s and still a sexual couple!
I have extremely large breasts, especially for my frame. I have to buy my bras at specialty shops in order to get a small enough band with a large enough cup. Short of wearing a heavy winter coat or an oversized sweatshirt, my breasts are always prominent no matter how demurely I’m dressed. I never go braless and actually wear two sports bras at the gym. I have also, at times, worn a bralette to bed. I’m sure if I was braless in public the attention would be more than I want, but the reason I always wear one is comfort. They’re very heavy and pull on my back and shoulders when there’s no support.
I asked my husband if he would be jealous of the attention I would get if I went braless and surprisingly he said he wouldn’t be.
I think it is fine for women to go braless if done tastefully. That means wearing a t shirt or regular shirt that is buttoned up is fine. I think they can show too much, no bra and shirt unbuttoned and show almost everything off. But, they are just breasts and they shouldn't feel like they have to be uncomfortably covered. My wife gets really hot, heat hot, lol, in a bra. She goes without sometimes, but not often in public. Braless nearly always at home.
My opinion as a male is that women shouldn't go bra-less in public..as it sends a negative message.
Putting yourself on public display will draw attention, but should you desire that sort of attention. ?
I'll admit it's difficult ( or maybe impossible ?) for a heterosexual male to ignore a bra-less woman, regardless of their endowment. I wouldn't want men leering @ my wife's breasts.What kind of thoughts would they have on their minds ?
Around the house, for display of your mate, sure..the sexual attention may be desired. and enjoyed. I prefer it in the
privacy of my home.
But why view women as objects, why is it up to women to control how men think. Men are responsible for their own thoughts.
I think I see where HR is trying to make a connection now between Michal's reaction to David dancing in his underwear, calling it "jealousy," and trying to draw a parallel between some people's attitudes towards women going braless. I think it's a stretch and David's retort is perfect: that before God he would become even more undignified than he had already been.
@Oldtimer I think you got a bit caught in the crossfire and I see your preference for your own wife as entirely valid, certainly something that must be agreed upon between couples. I don't think the older generation is ever going to get used to how the younger ones dress, but considering how much things have changed in the last century or so… I seem to remember an old lady remarking to a young Merle Oberon about how the state of dress kept getting more revealing over the years, but then men aren't as hot-blooded as they used to be; wish I could remember the name of the film. Viewpoints being what they were back then I'm sure a lot of people thought women dressed a certain way only to attract the attention of men, not that it's necessarily the case.
It's also an instance where standards of decency differ from country to country/region, and I assume most of us live in the USA. In Europe the female breast is not nearly as covered up as it is here, but then go to the Middle East and what's considered immodest to wear there!
@OT,
Sorry if my reply came off a bit fiery,
It is just that I have been criticized in this way before and the way I think about it is how a lot of women dress for self expression and not for the male gaze. It is not fair to women to blame men’s actions and thoughts on what the women wears. If men are stumbling it sounds like a personal issue and men need to have better control over their own lustful thoughts. I’ve been assaulted by men who have tried to play that card and it is so humiliating, disgusting, and traumatizing when I was not using my clothing as an invitation. Hope you can see my point of view.
sweetsugarspice, I'm so sorry you've had experiences like that! I can totally see how that sort of awful "justification" for evil actions against you would be infuriating. That's a completely invalid and pathetic excuse, and I pray God brings justice and healing to that situation.
As for the debate, I think you have a valid point, but I think there's some truth on the other side as well. I think it's valid to despise and reject the objectification of women and still ask them to provide a small measure of aid to men in their fight against sin.
To begin with, as part of being a good brother or sister in Christ, I believe we all have a responsibility to help people avoid personal stumbling blocks. It's just part of loving each other well. For example, if you knew a sister in Christ was a recovering alcoholic, you might not plan her surprise birthday party at a bar! Even if both her and you are confident in her ability to resist temptation, you wouldn't want to put her in a place where she has to fight to resist temptation, because it still puts pressure on her. I think this could help illustrate the situation with some men.
Next principle: somewhere I heard a distinction made between fault and responsibility, and it has served me well. Essentially, the idea is that Party A can be 100% at fault for the negative outcome of a situation, but at the same time, Party B can still have some responsibility to act to prevent or remedy the situation. As an illustration, if a car on the highway swerves into your lane dangerously and illegally, then they are at fault for any accident that occurs. It's not your fault that someone else is driving dangerously, but YOU are still responsible, if you have the chance, to maneuver to avoid an accident that could hurt both drivers!
So, to apply those principles to the bralessness debate:
If a woman is going braless (presumably showing the outline of nipples through her clothes), and a man has sinful thoughts and/or desires in response to that, the fault (the sin) is 100% with him. However, since this is an area where a significant number of men struggle (not all, of course, and to various degrees), and that has been communicated quite a bit throughout the Christian community, I think women have some level of responsibility to help their brothers in Christ to have a lessened pressure and temptation toward sinful lust. That extends beyond the decision of whether or not to show nipple outlines, and to all aspects of modest dress.
With that said, I will add a caveat: OF COURSE, this should NOT mean that women are the only ones that have to take action here! Women's actions should constitute only a tiny percentage of the overall solution. Each individual man struggling with lust has to be fighting daily to slay his sin. He must be constantly in prayer, immersing himself in God's word and sound teaching, disciplining his mind, body and heart, and even seeking professional help if he truly struggles that seriously. Men bear the totality of the fault for their sin, and men bear the extreme majority of the responsibility for preventing and destroying their sin (not denying God's part in defeating sin, of course).
However, to acknowledge sweetsugarspice's experiences, these principles are intended for normal interactions. I do NOT think this applies to an assault situation. All principles of normal decency go out the window at that point. If someone is terrible enough to commit a sexual assault, they're terrible enough to do it whether or not a woman's nipples are slightly visible through her top. That makes no difference. There are probably measures women can take to make themselves safer, but putting on a bra isn't on that list. I don't know what data has been collected and analyzed on this issue, but I would confidently guess that dressing more modestly overall has virtually no effect against people who are set on doing evil.
sweetsugarspice, I hope this makes sense, I hope it isn't inconsiderate of your experiences, and I pray you find increasing healing in Christ.
This was beautifully put, PP! I love how thoughtful you are and considerate of others.
I would add also that our "Victorian hangover" in Western society has played a big part in the sensitization of men to the sight or impression of a female nipple (or midriff or thigh…) If the only place one sees an object or body part is in relation to sex, then that sight will logically stimuate almost Pavlovian sexual excitement. But we should not confuse excitement with lustful thoughts or intentions nor use it as an excuse for unloving behavior.
Thank you CHL! That feedback means a lot to me! I really do try to figure out what is biblically true, and do it as kindly as possible.
I think you're right on everything you added too. As a young man, that last sentence especially has been a key mindset for helping me navigate attraction toward women in my life. It's SO freeing and helpful when I see an attractive woman to remind myself that it's okay to acknowledge and be awed by the beauty that God has created in her, but that I also need to master my thoughts and not let them run off into territory that is both objectifying to her and fruitless to me. Instead, I turn my thoughts toward my future wife, remind myself that my sexuality should be reserved for her, and think (briefly, without distracting myself too much from the day's tasks) how I plan to absolutely blow her mind when God brings us together. That's been a combination of ideas that has worked great for me!
So I am much more of a butt guy than a boob guy, to put it crassly. Having had 5 kids, and with less of a natural interest in bosoms, I am not really affected sexually by them unless it is heavlily accentuated or sexually purposed in various ways. Cleavage, points in clothed breasts, these don't really do much for me.
As far as my opinion on other guys admiring my wife, I would say I expect them to do so because she is a beautiful and attractive person! It only affirms what I already know. I am not interested in other men advancing on my wife or some jealousy dynamic. My wife always wears a bra, so it never arises to see what other men would think, but she does have a good rack, so I am guessing many have noticed her in a very positive way.
If my shirt isn’t too tight then I’m not wearing a bra. Especially at home. My mom and I both have small tt’s and it’s so much more relaxing going braless. I assumed it’s different for girls with bigger breasts but I am not worried about being a stumbling block for anyone because personally, I refuse to view myself as an object for the male gaze, if they stumble it’s on them. Men will stumble if a girl is completely convered and if a man has an issue and blames women for him stumbling than that is his own issue. Ladies, never let a man treat you like an object or a stumbling block and don’t view yourself as such. My family and I don’t view eachother in that way so wearing no bra around the house has no issues.
Bras are a social construct, breasts are naturally there. They didn’t have bras in the earliest days of humans, the idea of women’s clothing or lack their of being a stumbling block for men is just silly, that just reminds me of when someone is raped, would you ask them “what were you wearing?” No you wouldn’t because that would be extremely messed up. Men, need to control their urges, don’t target what women wear.
Did you by chance study visual art in college?
I majored in History and Geography 🙂 but I tried to get into the theater arts program haha
@ Faith- Manages
Why do you ask?
Because I recognize your rhetoric in multiple posts here very well from professors and some of the classmates I had: I find it antagonistic and triggering. I don't know your full story, but I'm very sorry you were assaulted, absolutely nothing justifies their actions, ESPECIALLY their own excuses. But wherever you heard what you're repeating here, I doubt very much that it came from a Godly woman or man, nor do I believe that the attitude behind it benefits either sex when relating to the other. Honestly I can't hear a woman say things like that without feeling like they're spouting vitriol at men in general, including me, and I wonder what I did to deserve it.
Woah, I’m sorry, I didn’t think I was spewing vitriol, but I want to make it clear that that wasn’t my intention. I felt we were all having productive conversation and just spouting off ideas. I certainly had no ill intent.
That didn’t make me feel very good about myself though so imma just leave it at this and stop commenting👋
QueenandHubbie has some good points down below; I want to echo that you should stay engaged here and I don't want to drive you away, certainly apologize if that was what was communicated. I wanted to make it clear that these are how I'm feeling and how I'm being triggered. And it's probably best if I move on from this thread as well.
I voted for “Depends on the context”. If I see a mother nursing her baby, I think it is sweet and I am pleased she has that freedom – even if the baby pulls off completely exposing her breast. But if she keeps herself covered up with a diaper, I feel cared for by a sister in Christ who loves me enough that she is unwilling to risk tempting me even though she may have the freedom to do so.
I feel the same about going braless. A woman may have the freedom to be obviously braless expecting me to control my thoughts; however, I appreciate the sister who loves me enough to not put me in that situation.
However, I don't want YOU AND ME to stop talking.
I’m not really sure what other intention there was with your comment about me “spewing “vitriol” on “multiple” posts. That basically translates to me as saying “stop commenting on posts because I don’t like what you have to say”
You don’t know me, but I can’t control what you assume about me as a person but I didn’t appreciate being attacked like that and to make a low blow about what I may or may not have studied in college/my profession. I found it really upsetting receiving that comment and it really bothered and hurt me. I don’t see how else I could have interpreted that besides blatant unkindness.
Didn’t feel like a Christ-loving based comment to me. Again, sorry for “triggering” you but maybe work on your responses and I do apologize if I was rude or offensive toward you or other gentlemen in my comment.
I dont really care so long as the woman looks presentable and dignified. Men and women tend to dress down way too much nowadays. If a woman doesn't have sloppy hooters rolling around in a dirty sweatshirt, then she's probably doing just fine in my book.
You don't see me wearing yoga pants to the grocery store with my dick and balls protruding out and making everyone sick. Modesty is way undervalued in this current culture.
When you notice a woman who is braless, does it evoke feelings of lust? Generally, no. I applaud women who are confident and freedom-loving enough to ditch bras. Enhances their beauty and feminine power, I'd say. But, yes, there have been occasions when braless women have struck me as highly erotic, and my reaction has, shall we say, "risen" to the occasion. My wife laughs at me when I have such a moment.
Would you be comfortable with your spouse choosing to go braless? Yes. My wife rarely goes braless in public, but when she has, I'm perfectly fine with that. I love it. She's very pretty and is blessed with a wonderful figure, which is enhanced when she's braless and sans panties. I wouldn't mind if she made it a permanent part of her fashion. I've said so, and she just smiles. Recently, we vacationed at a tropical resort, and, at my request, she was braless the whole time and said the was enjoying the comfort. It was all wonderful and lusciously erotic, especially at our dinners when she would wear either wide, plunging, glamorous blouses or her loose, nearly see-through tops at the club outdoors. Supercharged our libidos as well.
How do you react to the idea of other men noticing your spouse if she is not wearing a bra? Doesn't bother me at all if they mind their manners, and, so far, they have. Most of us guys are good guys. If they appreciate my braless wife, I chalk it up to their good taste.
Not causing others to stumble while enjoying natural and/or organic things in life is a quandary for all. Should I exercise my right to drink a beer in front of a recovering alcoholic? Should I never consume a beer in public because there might be a recovering alcoholic within viewing distance? My man parts seem to be attached such that they hang a bit more out front than many men. And, if I am wearing my dress slacks it is very noticeable….to the point my wife has made comment. I do try to mitigate by using an undershirt(tank type) tails to soften the look but I just go with the idea of it is what it is. I do wear tighter underwear because if I wear a thin bikini type brief, it is REALLY obvious. So, I try to be modest with an understanding that folks will just have to take personal responsibility if their own thoughts. Admire if you are a lady and seeing such is initially arousing to you. Keep control of your thoughts. Just like expressed above about men lusting over nipples showing through a ladies garment. Do I want my stuff on full display at the pulpit or at a Bible study? NO! But I can’t be the thought police for everyone. I have been to Africa where many women in the rural areas are topless. Beautiful women with lovely breasts! But, I admired their beauty without being consumed by my own mindful meanderings……
You've brought up some good points regarding freedom of personal expression. When was that big to-do over the neo-nazis wanting to parade through the small town that was predominantly Jewish? Or I can remember a bunch of women parading themselves topless outside of Promise Keepers conventions. I wonder what thoughts and words they used to justify their actions. And what if they wanted to do that in Amish communities?
I'm happy you're not insensible to your wife's comments regarding your appearance, it obviously has made you rethink a few things! There's one other thing you touched on briefly: if people dress one way during church and another outside of it, what is their reason? Is it just simple dressing up? Or would this be an indication that there's a different Persona that they put on (or feel that they have to) when they're surrounded by other Believers? My church is very casual attire so it would be more of an issue there I assume.
Well, God didn’t provide Eve with a bra after the fall, just animal skins. Before the bra was invented all women were walking around bra less.
Agree, that is one of my points as well.
.re: sweetsugarspice.. As you said, " women dress for self expression and not for the male gaze. It is not fair to women to blame men’s actions and thoughts on what the women wears. " I certainly understand and agree with your statements, You are considering the men that view how you dress have a level of maturity, self control, and sense of understanding of your self expression.in how you dress.
Unfortunately there are too many (men) without those qualities. Having worked in a prison x 5-6 yrs., I learned that accepting responsibilities for one's own behavior is an alien concept for many in our world. Trying to teach adults to accept responsibility for their actions is very difficult when they've grown up without that knowledge.
How often do you hear someone say, : He ..(she / they) made me do it.." as an explanation for their behavior ?
I used to tell the inmates I worked with that it's true : " he who angers you, controls you" and that until they learn to accept the responsibility for their behavior, it's a safe bet they'll stay in or be returning to prison.
It's unrealistic in the world that I live in to believe some men that view what THEY believe is provocative dress not to respond in sexual manner…despite or contrary to what the wearer may believe their dress expresses.
Not my "world view" of how things should be, but as a result of my life experience. It doesn't matter, but my time spent working in prison was in a women's prison.
Dear SSS, Hubbie here. Let me encourage you to stay engaged herein, and not stop commenting. Maybe call a halt to this post, but stay in the game. I agreed with your comments, and thought they brought a healthy view of Christian freedom (don’t wear a bra if you don’t want to) and Christian responsibility (men, control your minds and your cocks!).
Your comments were not even close to “spewing vitriol” (a nonsense comment). To your point, “… we were all having productive conversation …”. All my professional life, I’ve been a proponent of, and participated in strong conversations, debate, even “conflict” amongst friends. It’s part of adult life! Grow up, people!
There’s an interesting parallel here:
1) If you do something (don’t wear a bra), and someone has a reaction (acts sinfully), that’s on them, not you!
2) Do something (make legit comments), and someone has a reaction (is triggered), that’s on them, not you!
My point is, because someone claims you’re “antagonistic and triggering” shouldn’t make you not feel very good about yourself. That’s on them. Your comments were open, honest, robust, and lively. Good for you, and good for us! Maybe leave this comment string behind, but stay with the community and discussions.
Thanks.
I agree with Q&H here, SSS.
So this post was meant for sharing opinions and was based on a poll. I didn’t think sharing my opinion on an opinion based post and spouting off ideas would cause me to get attacked so heavily. I know this is anonymous but I didn’t think challenging others in discussion or asking them why they think the way they do would result in me being attacked for not just my opinion but for who I am as a person, what I studied in college, etc. I feel extremely attacked in some of these comments and while I thought this was a safe and accepting place to share my views I feel extremely shamed and terrible about myself. I feel like the way I’ve been attacked is way too far and has actually negatively affected how I’m feeling about myself.
I already feel shamed by other CHRISTIANS in my personal life, I’ve been called terrible names, been told I’m unclean, not good enough, etc. after seeing some of the comments I have received I feel a pit in my stomach and honestly feel super uncomfortable in talking to others on here now.
I have a few stories coming out soon but to be quite honest I’m hesitant on further involving myself in commenting. Super bummed.
@SSS
It’s terrible that you have been assaulted. I hope the men who did this were appropriately dealt with under force of law, and that you have found healing in Christ.
You are right: men are responsible for their own thoughts. And as a man, I totally get that. It’s made for some very uncomfortable choices over my Christian life. It’s one of those dichotomies that I trust many Christian men understand: the burning desire to be holy and without sin… while being trapped inside a body of flesh that sometimes wants to sin and is sometimes filled with lustful thoughts. You’re right – that’s my fault, and it’s my own personal problem.
You mentioned humiliation. Personally, I don’t think I’ve faced anything in life more humiliating to me, than my own sex drive and some of the sin it’s driven me to. Nothing in life has ever made me feel more shame, embarrassment, or spiritual devastation. It’s hard for me to comprehend just how or why my body craves something so much, but that has capacity to cause me so much heartache. Just being brutally honest. Every sin damages my relationship with the One who died for me. And it’s crushing when there’s failure. And some of it is pretty sick – no, I do NOT want to lust over a sister in Christ (or anyone). But lustful thoughts sometimes come. Sometimes I can turn them off, but other times it’s about like trying to stop an avalanche with a shovel. Is it her fault? Nope, it’s mine. She doesn’t have a clue about it. And I can’t tell you how many buckets of tears this has given me in my own private life that nobody ever sees. Only God could tell how many requests have been sent heavenward pleading for help to not lust.
If men were honest and open about this, it is such a lonely fight. Sex is supposedly a gift from God. Yet in my life I’ve vacillated between literally hating sex and everything about it (all because of my own sin), to enjoying it to its fullest with my wife. There’s another dichotomy. This is still a very real struggle to me. And I’ve learned through painful experience there are some hard choices I’ve had to make. We don’t have a television. As a general rule, I don’t watch movies. I try to be very careful what I do on the (filtered) internet. When we travel I don’t go to the pool. Just a few examples. And yeah – I’m constantly averting my eyes when I see anything that might sinfully provoke my mind. And yes, it’s a humiliating, shaming thing to have to say that it doesn’t take much to provoke lust in my heart. It’s nothing personal. I don’t want to see women as objects. And as a result, many times I simply can’t look at them. Do you have any idea how awful it makes me feel to have to admit that? Or how stupid it makes a man look if he has to do that in public? If I went to a church where women chose to wear provocative clothing, I think I would literally leave that church. It’s simply something I cannot handle in my weakness, and be able to keep my Christian sanity. And the strange thing is – I would never, ever act on those lustful thoughts towards a real person. Nor would I even say something about how she’s dressed. Oh no, I’m much too chicken for that. It's the mind I’m talking about. In the mind, satan has a field day when I let too much of the wrong thing in. And it’s THAT, which I’m trying to avoid.
I even limit my visits to this website for the very same reason.
Oh, I wish I was strong. I do, I do. But I’m not. I’m jealous of the freedom so many here feel with this particular area of life. But for me, if I don’t protect my mind and heart (and eyes), it’s not hard for me to spiral down the wrong path and lose my peace and joy with Christ. You mention that if men are stumbling it’s a personal issue and that they need to have better control over their own lustful thoughts. Agreed. And I’m working on that, and it’s very, very difficult. I’m thankful to have a wife at least, so as to have a proper place to express my sexual energy. But I’ve learned the hard way, having an outlet doesn’t stop the devil’s work. My heart is encouraged and warmed by the Bible’s promise that He which began a good work in me, is going to complete it. I don’t know how He will with the terrible material He has to work with (me), but He’s powerful, and He keeps His word.
Thank you for the comment SSS. If you read this, maybe it doesn’t make any sense from your perspective. I would beg you not to despise your weak brothers. Please pray for them, that they can be strong men in Christ, and have a proper attitude about sex, and about women as equal children of God. Holiness – we all need it!
sweetsugarspice – I hope you don't see my comment as a personal criticism. My wife goes braless in public, but she dresses so you'd never know it unless you were to touch her breast through her clothing.
Leastofhis, thank you for being so vulnerable in sharing. I really appreciate what you have to say. It breaks my heart that men have been conditioned to not show emotion and struggle in silence because of the push to appear more masculine and not show emotion. Men have many different struggles and we cannot survive without eachother (women and men) we are in symbiotic relationship with one another and I hope we as people can help men unlearn the things that have been pushed onto them. I really try to advocate for men’s mental health when I can, and I fully acknowledge that we will never fully understand the opposite sexes different issues but it’s okay because we need eachother in order to survive and keep going. How men are treated matters too and I in no way intend on bashing them and understand the loneliness it brings when struggling in silence. Thank you for taking the time to write this response!
Hubbie here: SSS, I hear your frustration, and I feel for you. I hope you did not take my comment above as attacking you. I thought they were very supportive. I can only encourage you once again, to take a breath, let go with this post conversation, and stay with us in other threads and stories. I do think you’re a good writer, and can contribute much to bless this community. God bless you, and I hope to hear from you again herein. Blessings and passion.
No not at all, your responses have been very kind. Please don’t worry about that. I love hearing what you have to say and what you write!
The Greeks are more or less credited with the earliest form of breast support, using linen to wrap and hold the puppies in place. The corset was invented in the 1500’s, and everybody who was anybody had to have one. The modern bra wasn’t invented until, (depending on who you read), the late 1800’s or early 1900’s. I said all that to say what we deem acceptable is largely influenced by culture. And culture, as we know, ebbs and flows.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a woman say anything positive in regards to comfort about wearing bras. Wearing one or not wearing one should be a personal choice based on what the individual woman feels is appropriate or comfortable in the setting.
If we all conducted ourselves as decent human beings, we could notice the absence of a breast nest without being creepy about it.
If my words caused you to feel attacked or uncomfortable @ all, I profusely apologize. My comments were not made as an attack or even criticism, but as a different point of view, one that I thought you may have not considered.
Intentions may be misunderstood, and that was the point of my postings. How you dress, behave / present yourself to the world determines how you will be viewed by others. They may (or may not) know you, but initial impressions are based on those outward "presentations" that you create by your appearance and behavior.
I feel this site is a safe and accepting place to share thoughts & experiences, a place where Christians can freely discuss their sexual thoughts, needs, questions, satisfactions, and experiences. Again, I apologize if anything I have written made you feel uncomfortable..noting was written with that intent.
No worries! I apologize if my comments came across aggressive!
Also thank you for your service with working in the prison system. That is a scary and dangerous job, I know that because my dad was a CO for 24 years and has been in law enforcement for 30, he just retired finally but I know he had to be subject to a lot of hard stuff. So I wanted to point out that your service is appreciated and seen!
Queen here. First off, let me say that I love to go braless! When I was younger, I never went anywhere without a bra, including our home. Being dressed meant I had a bra on.
Due to a health condition, I decided to go braless for a while. I loved it! I became quite used to not wearing one anymore. I have found a couple of very soft bras to wear when I feel it is appropriate to wear one, but I love the freedom of not wearing a bra.
I have gone shopping and been out in public without a bra. I love the gentle sway of my breasts as I walk! Initially I was concerned about not attracting unwanted attention, but I am more concerned about being sexy and attractive to Hubbie! He loves my tits, especially when I flash him!
God created women with breasts, and the female body is beautifully shaped. My personal faith has not entered into my decision to go braless. I think God would approve of me seducing my husband in this way, and of not being ashamed of his creation.
Thank you, SSS.for the kind words. I have the utmost respect for CO's..as I worked closely with them while working "behind the gate". I wasn't working as a CO, I was a "QMHP" (a qualified mental health professional) working the PM shift in a housing unit for female inmates that had a diagnosed mental illness ( AND couldn't fit in with Gen. Pop.) A locked, level 4 unit ( out of 5 levels of security) I was the 1st male to work on this unit. I administered meds, monitored health status, taught classes, did psych evals, etc to arsonists, murders, drug dealers, and other not-so-nice people. I'd worked 20 yrs. in mental health systems when I started, & had previous experience with all age groups, (from pre-school age to geriatrics) and my experience in prison was an eye opener..I thought I'd seen it all..(I was wrong)
Being nudists hundreds or thousands have seen my breasts without a bra in all their glory at clubs and beaches. Outside of nudist venues I rarely wear a bra. If I am going to church, a wedding or funeral, then yes. There are a few occasions. Other than that people seeing my 36 D cups is just a non issue. My normal clothing normally covers everything up. Besides, pretty much everyone knows breasts have a function of feeding infants.
At home I do wear a scant amount of clothing if I'm outside doing something in the front yard. I try not to go overboard interpreting the Bible. I'm proud of my body and if men want to ogle my jiggling boobs then more power to them. Not wearing a bra is for my comfort, not their entertainment.
I love reading all of the above diverse comments!
I can only add that with my wife, Patty, her exhibitionist tendencies stem from the abundant self-confidence she has developed since we first started dating. In our case, I was SO hot for her body when we first met that I told her I love sharing her "assets" with other friends as long as she wanted to. At first she was a bit shy, but as she "loosened up" at various social get-togethers by going braless, she was flooded with positive remarks and looks from both men and women. I soon learned that the female compliments turned her on perhaps more than the male. I guess she considered female validation more meaningful than males'.
In our case, she found most of our (girl) friends beginning to shed their bras and flaunt their bods along with Patty, and the admiration from others really cranked-up her libido; including better orgasms, orgasm frequency and a real increase in her masturbation openness!
You are right on the money here sweetheart, so you will be rewarded as soon as you hit the door tonight, and exactly the way you like it 😎
I have very big tits—48DDD. Before I met my husband, I would not dream of going bra less. But now, I rarely wear a bra; at home, my husband likes me barely dressed, especially if we have friends or family over. As a matter of fact, we have a sign on our front door that reads, "Clothing Optional. We maybe nude." My daughter came to visit the other day, and she too has huge tits. We both were topless. Doesn’t bother us at all. If I am in public, same thing: no bra and hard nipples. Husband loves it.
Amazing! Do let me know if your daughter is single. I have nothing against large breasts. 🙂
I've been watching this post, and I think we need to define the word "lust". I recently came up on a post that dealt with this, but first let me say that different Bible translations are subject to the comfort level of the translators regarding the subject or passage they were working on. Since Hebrew and Greek don't directly translate to English (honestly, not many languages do), the translators must determine the intent of the passage and express it as best they can.
That said, the Hebrew word for "covet" is the same word that is translated "lust" in some passages. If you change the word from lust to covet in those areas, it gives a much better understanding as to what was truly meant.
To covet means "to make a plan to actually have the person or object". Consider the 10th commandment. "Do not covet your neighbors wife, servant, house, car, etc". Then consider what Jesus said about commiting adultery in your heart.
If being aroused by the mere sight of someone is sinful, then there probably isn't a person alive or dead that hasn't committed adultery. I honestly believe his true intention was that coveting that person, i.e. making a plan to have sex with them and acting on it, is the same as actually having sex with them. I can not believe that a loving God would create sex for pleasure, then make men the visually stimulated beings that we are, and then set us up for failure for being merely aroused by the sight of a beautiful woman. I personally believe that some of the Bible translators of the past had some serious hangups with sex themselves and pushed those hangups on us through their translation of certain passages.
This is just my humble interpretation. Thank you your consideration of my comments.
I think there may be a third possibility that's not being discussed. One is that mere arousal or desire is sinful, which I agree there is no good biblical case for. Another is that the sin is "coveting," defined by making a plan to interact sexually with someone in a way the Bible has clearly prohibited. But the mere fact that Option 1 is biblically unfeasible doesn't mean that Option 2 is automatically the right answer.
The reason I think there's a third option is that I feel like there is more to coveting than just planning or acting. I think entertaining certain thoughts can still be sinful (and certainly at the very least deeply unhealthy), even if they don't rise to the level of "plans."
Thinking "Wow she's pretty" isn't wrong, but what occurs after that initial thought is the key factor. For example, if you find someone attractive and know they're married, do we really think that fantasizing about having sex with someone else's spouse is fine, and that God doesn't have any problem with it as long as you don't make plans to actually have sexual contact with them? That seems pretty messed up to me. Is it acceptable to fantasize about committing sexual assault or murder as long as we don't actually plan to do it? In my personal opinion, the standard we should hold ourselves to is to never consciously entertain thoughts that would be sinful if acted out.
I'm no biblical scholar, and my instincts of right and wrong are admittedly imperfect, but I think we would be wise to consider that it is very likely possible to sin in our thoughts even short of making plans for illicit sexual contact.
I honestly think his plan was for us to be aroused, then go to our spouse for fulfillment of that desire. If single, use fantasy for fulfillment, so long as the fantasy stays a fantasy and doesn't turn into a plan, i.e., coveting. People have been so indoctrinated by the "church" making us feel like any desire for sex is sending us straight to hell. I personally dealt with this issue for a long time until I really dug into it.
I think you are right. Coveting someone who cannot rightfully be yours is what Jesus was warning against. He said that if you look at a *married woman* (it is important that the word used for woman always refers to a wife in the NT) with the desire to have her, you have already committed adultery with her. Since by definition a single man cannot commit adultery with a single woman, he was not warning men not to be turned on by someone they could potentially marry or even to avoid fantasizing about her. So if a young man sees a braless woman, he isn't sinning to find that stimulating. If she happens to be a single young woman, then a fantasy about her being his wife would be appropriate. I would simply advise young men not to be satisfied with fantasy and instead let their imagination stir them up to pursuit of a relationship!
Hubbie here: I’ve posted a lot on these topics, and there are some great thoughts here, so I won’t elaborate more. This is just my “upvote” for Horndog53 and CrazyHappyLoved’s comments. Good one’s!
I am braless today reading MH stories. Feels good. Husband is with the children at Grandmas. I just sent a text to my husband of me pinching my tits over my blouse.
If going braless had been acceptable when I was young, I would hope that visible erections would have been acceptable. I lived with erections most of the time anyway and that would have just exacerbated the issue exponentially. I worked in an office during the turn of the century where one female always had protruding nipples, and the same could pretty much have been said for my penis, and I am not young!
I know I’m commenting on an older post, but I was in the local store yesterday and saw woman going braless. She wasn’t showing a bunch of cleavage, and she wasn’t wearing a super tight shirt, but she was clearly enjoying the unencumbered freedom of no undergarment.
The question above posed to men is, “Does it invoke feelings of lust?” The answer is no. Honestly, it was just pretty and arousing. The outline of her breasts were visible and her nipples were enjoying their freedom. The woman wasn’t flirty, but she knew she was being seen. I just enjoyed the brief show and moved on.
Questions for Discussion in the Comments:
Women: Can you share your experiences with going braless in public? If you’ve chosen to go braless, how do you feel about the possibility of attracting attention from others? Additionally, what are your thoughts on the relationship between your personal faith and the decision to go braless?
VANESSA’S ANSWER (John’s note: she dictated and I did my best to paraphrase; she tends to ramble and it’s adorable):
“I guess it depends on what kind of shirt I’m wearing. I like the feeling of going braless, but as a Christian woman, I worry about causing men to lust. I try to find a balance. I will often go out with no bra, a t-shirt, and a hoodie. My girls are pretty big, so you can tell I’m not wearing a bra. But I try not to be too obvious. The thick fabric of the hoodie I feel is a good compromise where I’m not being extra obvious, but it still feels good.”
Men: When you notice a woman who is braless, does it evoke feelings of lust? Would you be comfortable with your spouse choosing to go braless? How do you react to the idea of other men noticing your spouse if she is not wearing a bra?
JOHN’S ANSWER:
“I don’t like to be manipulated. I’ve had a few instances of women exposing their breasts or wearing very thin t-shirts with no bras underneath specifically to get a rise out of me (sorry, couldn’t resist). I tend to think “what’s their angle?”. I’ve worked in security and in a support role in the medical field, so bodies, including naked ones, aren’t exactly shocking anymore. I still appreciate female beauty, and I am not necessarily opposed to public bralessness, or even toplessness in certain settings. It’s all about the motive and context, for me. I am fine with Vanessa going braless, but I am very paranoid as well due to my work in security and in a prison setting, not to mention the effects of several head injuries. I KNOW she will be noticed, and I don’t mind. In fact, I love it. But I’d rather be with her so she’s not alone when men notice her, if that makes sense. In a nutshell, I love showing her off, but want to be there to keep her safe. Does that make sense?”
Dare Question for Couples: Do you have any stories about how going braless at home or in public spiced up your marriage? We’d love to hear about your experiences in the comments, or feel free to write and submit a story detailing your adventures.
John here, I’ll definitely write some stories. I love coming home from work and Nessa’s braless, or better yet, topless. She has occasionally gotten a bit showy as well with her cleavage in public when I’m with her, as a treat for me. I love it.