Virginity – When Is It Lost?
Scripture can seem sort of quiet on virginity. Where older parents tell children, “Just don’t do it,” or “Just stay away from it,” the younger crowd is curious. This is the age-old dynamic: How close to the edge can I get without sinning? Many people experiment with sexual boundaries, while the Bible and church stress abstinence.
Some would say that Bible times would equal stronger, more chaste, people than today. But, then again, we can disagree. All the while, our own sexual habits, experiences and beliefs influence our standards and conclusions very heavily. Sometimes we recognize this, other times we don’t.
So, I’d like to ask you all, knowing we could all have a different answer…
…What is a virgin?
Almost no one would ever say a doctor’s exam of the vagina would equate a loss of virginity. Some may debate whether masturbation equals a loss of virginity. What about toys?
What lines have to be crossed before a woman knows she technically should not wear white at her wedding? Some believers have homosexual play in their past—would that be a loss of virginity? For men’s virginity, is it about going into a vagina, or about going into anything? What if he doesn’t cum? What if he only had the tip in and changed his mind?
Is the Bible clear enough? Should we know better? Are we playing God with people’s virginity? Is it any and all sexual contact, or just intercourse that concerns virginity?
Opine, please. But as you opine, consider this hypothetical scenario.
Say, at any age, a girl is getting married. She has been naked with other guys. She has been felt up, has been fingered, done anal sex, and has been eaten out, all in consenting encounters, and to her pleasure. She has masturbated to orgasm, has had as many orgasms, experiences, and partners. Basically, she has had everything in her vagina, but a penis. She has never had vaginal intercourse.
Now, her to-be-husband asks if she is a virgin. Technically, literally, honest before God, what does she answer?
A very good but so complex question! 🤪Wow, I'm not sure I can answer it. I do think the state of the heart is huge. Sex is not just physical; you do give your heart and emotions to a person with whom you have any kind of sexual contact. So in my opinion, if a woman was about to get married but she had had non-intercourse sex with other men, she would have already given away things that only her husband should receive. The heart and spirit are not virgin anymore. That's the best way I can put it. Now, she's not "stained" or less valuable, as purity culture teaches, but I think she would have to be open about her past. Hopefully couples would discuss things like this though WAY before the eve of the wedding!
Good question! While all of those experiences shape her sexuality, it seems to me that the biblical answer is no vaginal intercourse.
While I so appreciate and enjoy Marriage Heat, I have looked for a Christian marriage chat site where questions raised like this one could be more readily discussed. Someone mentioned the Songs of the Believers. I can find the website but it requires an application to submit for approval – but I can’t see a link to it. Any suggestions about Songs of the Believers or other Christian chat platform that share the values of Marriage Heat would be appreciated.
Oh, I forgot to ask. Romantic Blessings that is recommended by MH is a wonderful resource. If I am correct they work with churches and small home groups to host discussion groups around their products.
Have any of you participated in such a group. This kind of openness and healthy discussion would seem to be so helpful. But it is far outside my conservative environment.
I’m not sure when it happened, but at some point there was a cultural shift in christianity that more or less introduced “vaginal virginity.” Defined, this simply meant that if there was no vaginal penetration, then a person could be considered a virgin. What that did was allow all sorts of sexual activity, including anal, to be allowed without feelings of guilt or concern of being married without one’s virtue intact.
But that’s not biblical. Biblically speaking, a virgin is someone who has not had sexual intercourse, but it also implies chasteness. Chasteness carries with it a person’s sexual intention.
So, if there’s sexual intention, which includes heavy petting, and certainly anal or oral penetration, a person could not be considered chaste, even though there was no vaginal penetration.
So in your example, the woman getting married might be a vaginal virgin, but I don’t think she could consider herself a virgin in the true sense of the word.
My above comment didn’t mention single masturbation, which I don’t think is wrong at all. I think it’s a glorious way both to enjoy your sexuality and learn what you like.
Also, my comment was not judgmental nor was it from the perspective of someone who did it right.
I agree completely with what KingdomMan said above. It was concisely and accurately articulated. I have my own more expansive thoughts to add, as is my way of writing, haha!
While discussing boundaries between right and wrong is extremely important, I think "How close can I get to the edge without sinning?" is entirely the wrong mindset. A better mindset is, "How can I steward the sexual gifts I've been given in a way that most pleases God?"
I actually made a post on the topic of virginity several years ago, and I still stand by what I said. (https://marriageheat.com/2021/04/19/virginity-is-not-a-virtue/) (It was posted under a different name, during a phase when I kept some of my posts and comments separate various reasons.) My overall thesis was this: Virginity is not a virtue. Preserving virginity by avoiding sex, whatever that means to each person, is not a universal good. A better virtue to aim for is sexual purity. The noblest aim is to use your sexuality in a way that honors God, whether that is through complete abstinence, single self-exploration, or married sex.
My best understanding from what the Bible tells us about virginity, it is primarily used to refer to a woman who has never had sexual intercourse—penis in vagina.
But as I wrote in my post Virginity Is Not a Virtue, virginity should not be our focus, because it's at best a mediocre proxy for a much more important reality, which is sexual purity. To me, it doesn't matter whether toys, oral sex or anal sex technically end the state of virginity. What matters is not whether virginity is being lost, but whether sin is being committed.
Virginity can be lost only once. But if lost in an act of sin, the second act of sin would not change the state of virginity, and yet would be just as sinful. On the flip side, virginity can be lost in a pure and sinless act of intercourse within marriage. While that may be special and beautiful, there is no spiritual or moral difference between the first, second, tenth and hundredth act of intercourse in marriage.
If the point isn't obvious yet, here it is more plainly: virginity is a nearly useless term—more of a symbol of purity than a practical guideline. It can be a good thing, but only as a temporary side effect of pursuing the much more important goal of overall sexual purity.
So to answer the hypothetical question at the end of the post: I believe the woman in that situation should answer with a full account of her sexual history, which I think all couples should discuss before getting married. If this was a woman I was courting, I would personally say she was definitely NOT a virgin. But again, my main concern would not be with a label, but with her sexual purity, which would obviously be compromised by such promiscuous sexual acts. The same would apply if such acts were committed by a young man (if he had received and given oral sex, had handjobs from a partner, etc.). There should be no double-standard. Both men and women should be held to the same standard of sexual behavior.
I consider oral sex to be real sex, whereby someone loses their virginity.
Some people (myself included) believe that oral sex is a much more intimate form of sex even than intercourse.
I think it has more to do with your heart than physical actions. I believe if you specifically performed an action with sexual intentions focused on sexual pleasure with the other person then technically you are not a virgin.
That would also mean I was not a virgin in the truest sense when I was married, but I don’t think that means I was not pure as Jesus makes us new and blameless every second! Without the redeeming power of his blood we would all be tainted with sin somehow or another!
I was also in a separate but abusive and manipulative situation with someone before marriage in which I performed sexual acts out of fear for my physical safety and I do not consider those actions in particular to disqualify me from being a virgin before marriage.( I consider certain acts I did with my now husband before marriage to disqualify me from being a virgin when I walked down the aisle haha. )
This is what I mean by physical actions are separate from the intentions that would mean you lost your virginity. I like to believe my abusive partner in my past did not take my virginity from me without my consent and have decided that was not a decision I made outside of concern for my physical safety and therefore I still made the decision to give my virginity to my husband.
I appreciate the “heart” response. Ultimately that’s what God looks upon.
I, also appreciate the statement “Jesus makes us new and blameless every second”. That’s a powerful reminder of what it means to be “in Christ” and beckons deeper love for Him.
Thank you.
Years ago I read a book, "Good News About Sex" by Fr. David M. Knight.
I remember a line, virginity was fulfilled when sex happened in marriage.
Chastity is one of the traditional virtues, (the others being: temperance, charity, diligence, patience, kindness, and humility).
Virginity is part of being chaste, but not all of it. I think you all have being saying it well.
Chastity is for both singleness and marriage. It is looking at others with eyes of purity, including one's spouse. And what MarriageHeat is good for, chastity authentically practised includes being sexual. The stories here attest to that. Plus the Song of Songs, prudent use of porn and masturbation. All fit within sexual purity – being chaste. You can be chaste and horny.
Not being chaste is desiring sexual contact with another who is not your spouse. No oral or manual sex with boy/girl friend, even fiancé. King David sinned when he looked across the rooftops and unchastely desired Bathsheba, that is before he instructed his servants to get her. He committed adultery in his heart.
————- As an aside:
St Joseph, has the title most chaste spouse. I wonder when I see the symbolism in Songs that connect the two protagonists (Shulammite and Solomon), use of roses and lilies (Lilies are the symbol of St Joseph and of purity) Roses to the rosary (PS, it is not an exclusively Catholic way to pray).
The descriptions of the Shulammite: Chapter 1:8 “fairest among women,” Chapter 4:7 ‘You are altogether beautiful, my love; there is no flaw in you.’ Chapter 5:2 “flawless” Chapter 5:9 “O fairest among women”.
Could be a description of virgin mother Mary.
Add that The Catholic Legion of Mary. In their prayers they begin and end the Magnificat with the
Antiphon. "Who is she that comes forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army set in battle array?" (Song of Solomon 6:10)
I wonder if Songs is a prefiguration of the relationship between Mary and St Joseph?
Mary and St Joseph who are the most pure, chaste us mere mortals can be. If I am correct, these two symbols of chastity, sexual purity, had quite an active non penetrate sex life, (I don't believe there is sexual intercourse in Songs, there is oral, manual and self masturbation. I also accept the tradition that Mary remained a virgin, the "other brothers" are close kin.
————- When I searched to find I had the name of the book right, I found that Fr David Knight died at age 90 in Guatemala, March 2021. He was an American Catholic priest of the Catholic Diocese of Memphis. I wonder if he would have supported MarriageHeat?
I know we have protestant pastors here. We have some Catholics and those with Catholics in their families, but I'm not aware of any Catholic priests or religious.
Being celibate, except when previously married, they would not have personal married heat stories, but could be here to support others.
Has anybody tried inviting Catholic priests and religious here?
Lika
Being sometimes a boring academic.
Some of you will be aware that the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church 2352 quoting Persona humana 9., "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."
And you'll have a problem with that.
https://marriageheat.com/2017/08/16/became-sexually-alive/
I am preparing a much longer story that goes into the detail of why I think 2352 is not Catholic teaching. AliveSexyWife's stoy and MH on masturbation fit with tradition.
I have been working on this for years. The above AliveSexyWife is in fact the first story I read here on MH.
Short summary, the 1992 Catechism is not infallible, nor of itself any encyclical.
The Catechism of the Council of Trent is claimed to be infallible in matters of faith and morals, it lists only three sexual sins, adultery, fornication, harlotry (prostitution) – silent on masturbation.
Historians of the Middle ages claim that what was taught is, "masturbation in moderation". thus show false the above claim that of the Magisterium of the Church, and constant tradition opposing masturbation.
The claim of some theologians that masturbation is condemned because it is an unnatural act, goes against reason and against the Song of Songs.
That will do for now. Enjoy you bodies as God made you to do – in chastity.
Lika
"King David sinned when he looked across the rooftops and unchastely desired Bathsheba, that is before he instructed his servants to get her. He committed adultery in his heart."
I almost let this slide, so forgive my intrusion, but you went on & said, "before he instructed his servants." I understand this to be too broad of a stroke. Making sin to encompass all David did from being on the roof to the act done. Why not start at the fact he wasn't out with his army? I see the passage as showing a an itemized progression from innocent enough to down right sinner. The sin not starting til he had her brought to him. I see that as the start of lust. Before that temptation, which is not a sin. Not saying David didn't have it in him to do it all along, I just don't like making the burden heavier than God makes it. If David sinned from the beginning walk on the roof why did God only call him on the act of the body, & the murder?
Thanks for the discussion people. You're all awesome. I'm glad this was a topic worth discussing.
As it has been said I believe virginity lost is the whole of what we are bringing to the discussion. The heart, the chaste, & the technical aspects all join to address this in scripture. Yet, the contemporary argument is pretty far from Bible context, meaning a lot of accepted sexual activity (good or bad) is happening today, & this conditions the topic. If you step out of your pew today & ask when is virginity lost, the discussion would probably sound more Jersey Shore than Jerusalem Israel. This doesn't mean we cannot get to a unified answer, which is God's intention, it just means it might be more complicated, it might take a little longer to get there.
As much as we all have our points to make, God has an "opinion." This, I estimate, would be a part of His Way, Truth, & Life. Let me disclaim, I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone's past, experience, or understanding on this topic. Today, there are a lot of christians who were virgins at marriage, & there are a lot who were not. For what ever reason we did what we did, I don't judge. If you're a believer, welcome to the family. Yet, we bring all our experiences to the topic.
Back in OT Israel it was much easier to be chaste of heart, mind, spirit, & body just by the simple fact that they had national laws that governed sex. Then, they had a unity, in God, that IMO is rivaled by none. Being God's people, His children, was the atmosphere. Much like money, or politics, is our atmosphere, today.
A few scriptures shed light on when virginity is lost. My style of tackling issues is to let God sit at the table. More so, He stands at the podium. I believe we all strive to do this. Then, I look to unburden people, because I know how we can believe the accuser. We get down. Past, & current, sin can get heavy. Sometimes, maybe most times, that comes from perception. We judge ourselves unfit, therefore, we think God hates us.
The first scripture that forms my opinion is, Genesis 2:24, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."
Joining that scripture with, 1 Corinthians 6:16, "Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh,” gives real definition that the two becoming one flesh is of the body. Sexual intercourse. With all of our heart, mind, & emotions all wrapped up into the act, God places the line at the act, the body. This doesn't mean there isn't a before, during, or after of the heart & mind. It just doesn't rate as high as the act itself, when God speaks about it. I am not lessening the importance of the heart/spirit side, just trying to tackle it as God instructs.
Another scripture, Leviticus 21:14, God instructs His priests, "A widow, or a divorced woman, or a woman who has been defiled, or a prostitute, these he shall not marry. But he shall take as his wife a virgin of his own people." This verse takes in the desire, temptation, & lust aspects. The heart that wants to sin. With all these aspects of sex, good or bad, God again sets the boundary with the act. The virgin, who is not these others He describes. Yes, God instructs all His followers to flee temptation, & lust. But, I believe many christians (those who struggle with & those who don't) justify, or judge, more on how close, mindset, or just opinion of feeling. This isn't helpful to the hurting. We all come to Jesus to find home. I would rather lift a burden & tell a person they were still a virgin, in the situation in the post. I would rather be strong enough to even marry a prostitute, if that's what God told me to do.
Another scripture is, Deuteronomy 22:13-21. A famous passage concerning law if a husband does not find evidence of virginity. This passage does not concern itself with the heart aspect. Is the woman a virgin, or not, is all it is about. I won't even begin to know what the evidence, nor how this proof was obtained, but the focus is on the act, the body, once again.
Another thought is the context of scripture. All the Bible seems concerned about is the baby making act. That is not to say that the foreplay that leads to the act goes unnoticed, as a person with interest might interject. Nothing, in scripture, addresses fingers, toys, or other things that people use to penetrate. The overall context of scripture being Jesus, would show that God has always been concerned with bloodline purity. God could not allow satan to interfere with the plan of Messiah, that would save the world. Many times satan tried to confuse the pure bloodline of Israel, but God & His people did not allow it.
I would rather not have my children play around with worldly motives for sinful sex. Yet, that does not stop it from happening, if it does. We christians would rather have it easy, but we don't. Sin happens, & the world influences the church. The church is full of the promiscuous, experimenting, & those that defiled themselves before marriage, & those that did not.
I would say the woman in the post above is still a virgin. Was she correct in her lifestyle? I would think she would say no, she wasn't. If I were going to marry her, which I think I would, if she were that person for me, we would both agree that it was only by the grace of God she was still a virgin, at her wedding.
This is only my .02¢. Thank you all for sharing & discussing. I think, together, we make up God's answer. Praying, this post helps anyone struggling to forgive themselves of sexual activity, or not being a virgin, at marriage. You're a new creature in Christ. He is our purity. It's ok to forgive yourself & believe Jesus does.
Interesting that virginity is still an important topic. Maybe if you masturbate thinking about a person it’s the same as actual sex and you lose your virginity. I support the stance that God never intended people to abstain from sex in today’s society until marriage.
Hey Marge, even though we do differ, we have agreed some. Most of the time it's on statements like this we disagree. I mean no judgement, & you may not want to get into it, that is fine. But, I'd like to know where, "the stance that God never intended people to abstain from sex in today’s society until marriage," is in scripture? Since, God wrote the Bible through the Holy Spirit, through the heart & hand of select men it should be in there, correct? It is the Bible that all of christianity ascribes to, but you are the first person I have ever heard have this stance. God not being a confusing God, it should be clear to both you & I, those Jesus prayed for in John 17:20-23. Desiring we all be 1 in Him, & with each other. Again, no judging, just would love to discuss. Man, how I would love to sit over coffee & discuss Bible with you. Thanks for being here, & sharing. I do enjoy you, your heart, & some of your experiences are quite arousing.
This is such a fascinating question. I can’t think of much is scripture less definitive. I do think that there is a difference between purity and technical virginity. What is more reassuring to me is knowing that my spouse has had no one else’s penis in her vagina to compare me to.
Great question. The bible is rather vague on what constitutes a loss of virginity. I am tempted to bring up a statement incorrectly attributed to John Wesley: "Where the scriptures speak, we speak; where the scriptures are silent, we are silent,"
But it seems no one wants to be silent. Not the Pharisees, not the early church leaders, not the contemporary "purity culture" lot.
For me the technical point for loss of virginity (for both man and woman) is when the penis enters the vagina. Which leaves a LOT of leeway for other sexual activities.
Now as to your hypothetical young(?) lady, she should not answer the Q with a simple "yes/no" type of response. She should detail out (at least in general terms) what she has done.
Love this answer. Love the thought provoking answer she should make. I agree.