On the Subject of Getting Married
God has given me a wonderful blessing; a specific promise of a wife.
My girlfriend and I have dated for a year, and have known each other for two years. Early in our dating relationship, we knew we wanted to marry each other. But now we face some challenges, and we’d like to receive some wisdom from those who have done it and were successful, especially from those who have faced similar problems.
One of our more immediate problems is purity. We have already done some things that she has problems with, and that I am therefore unsure about. By nature AND second nature, I personally have no problems with the things we have been doing. What I mean by that is 1) like every other sexual person in this world, I desire sex, and believe it is a good thing within the context of marriage, and 2) I so need to be open-minded (it’s core to who I am) that I cannot settle down on any one definition of sex, and therefore cannot define the limits regarding sex before marriage.
So I need some wisdom and/or prayer regarding a divine and directly God-given definition of sex. I say a divine and directly God-given definition, because there are so many interpretations of scripture regarding how to define sex, and they are only interpretations, not the core Truth I need. If it came from God, and if it was tailored specifically for me, I could accept it. But all definitions of sex that I’ve heard are others’ definitions, and I need one that meets my individual needs. No one can give that to me but God himself.
The second problem I have is that my girlfriend and I want to get married, but we want to be ready, and she especially wants to avoid any unnecessary complications. She wants at least one of us to have a job that can support both of us, and at the same time, she also knows that when we get married, going to school will be tough for both of us. (she wants to be a counselor, as do I.) This would be easily solved by just waiting, right?
The problem with that is, I do not have the sexual self-control (or the gift of continence, as one commentary called it), and waiting that long could end up in premarital sex, which neither of us wants. She is even frustrated with me because I can’t control myself and that she has to suffer, but what can I do? No preparation I can make seems to be able to prevent things from happening, as we still end up in my room, me sucking on her boobs and touching her butt, and even laying on top of her (but clothes on has been all we’ve done apart from boob touching/sucking, praise be to Jesus, I don’t know how).
She’s even asexual! The best solution I have is to stay away from her until we’re married, but she feels an injustice that she has to suffer for my lack of self-control.
But back to the topic of readiness; what should I do? What can I do to prepare? What ducks did all you married people have in a row by the wedding date? What is necessary for a successful marriage, and what isn’t, biblically speaking?
Dude, let me be frank, I don’t think you are asking the right questions. Theologian Pete Rollins once said (paraphrase), “When one is speaking of God they are never speaking of God, but are always speaking of one’s understanding of God.” Meaning… all we will ever know of God is through the foggy lens of human interpretation. The implications? We can try and try, but no ONE person has the TRUE understanding of God’s nature. You are looking for certainty in a place that will always remain a mystery.
I (and we) CANNOT tell you God’s one true ultimate definition of sex. I (and we) can’t even tell you if your conclusions about marriage are correct.
What I can tell you… and what the Bible is very clear on… is that someone who is abiding in Christ (John 15) will bear the fruit of Self Control (Galatians 5). So when I read your post, I don’t think it’s about waiting for a lightening bolt from God… it’s about owning up to what God has clearly said about Self Control. And frankly this has very little to do with your girlfriend’s tits either.
How does God develop patience in our lives? He will inevitably put us in situations of impatience. How does God develop peace in our lives? By allowing conflict in. And so it’s no surprise that you find yourself in a situation where you lack will power…. but it’s not to excuse it away, it’s to develop that spiritual muscle in your life. As you display self-control before marriage, it will sow seeds of trust that you will also be self-controlled INSIDE of marriage.
Also, I’m not sure you know what the term “asexual” means (i.e. it means NON-sexual… no sexual appetite at all.) It’s not a trait you would desire your future spouse have.
Well put Pac Man
Wow, on the nose @Pacman!
If I may add to this…
While God’s character and majesty remain mysterious, I think God speaks very plainly what sex is in His Word.
Years ago and serving as a youth pastor, I was often asked similar questions in the framework of “how far can we go and still be pure?”
I think that’s the wrong question to ask. Not to over-simplify it, but I think a better question is “how much can we save for marriage?”
God designed sex (and all those wonderful blessings for marriage exclusively).
And while I’m not going to sit here and say that my wife and I did it perfectly, we waited for the wedding to share even our first kiss. And I can tell you, we have never regretted it.
Concerning your desires, yes, they are God-given, but they can also be abused by the flesh when we place ourselves in compromising situations.
Just as PacMan said, John 15 gives us the exclusive understanding of true happiness and satisfaction. And that is not through the premarital gratifying of the flesh, but the satisfaction that can be found in Christ.
If sex is pursued for the single emphasis of gratifying the flesh, you will find yourself empty. But when the time comes, and it will, and sex is used for the joy of your eventual wife, you will find satisfaction that cannot be matched.
I’m sure I’m not the only one who would say this…my greatest sexual experiences and heaviest orgasms come when when I know I am bringing my wife intense pleasure. But if we’re tiffing and the sex all about me, it always leaves me unsatisfied and joyless.
I will pray for you brother. My encouragement would be that you seek help within your church. That’s what God put the church family there for. And as much benefit as it can be to receive advice online, personal conversations and real-life accountability and edification cannot be replaced.
God bless!
No comment. We've been married too long.
First off, right on PacMan.
"So I need some wisdom and/or prayer regarding a divine and directly God-given definition of sex. I say a divine and directly God-given definition"
"Love your wife as God loved the church and gave himself to fir her". If your girlfriend is feeling upset and dishonored you have your answer right there.
Reading your post it seems to me you may be over-spiritullalizing this and using it to excuse a lack of self-control. Paul makes a concession to those in your common predicament in 1 Cor. 7. "But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
Don't marry so you can simply have sex, that's a very bad idea. But if you truly love each other and plan to marry then put aside the fact that the timing isn't perfect. Life rarely follows our perfect plans.
Sounds to me like you are probably looking for counsel from the Holy Spirit. Are you familiar with Acts 2, and what happened on Pentecost? Verse 38 is the most concise exhortation.
I am nobody special, just an apprentice of Jesus. As I have learned from Him, I have written some of my experiences and discoveries in a blog. You may find it helpful. You can read it at 'undeserving dot me'. (MH doesn't want me to use a direct link. But they have allowed me to mention it here before.)
I think the post most relevant to your questions is "Apprentice of Jesus". It is the featured post on the right side of the screen.
As Pacman stated, we cannot know, as in direct knowledge, of what's in God's mind about sex. And there are plenty of opinions and interpretations to go around. However, at the risk of missing the mark, I will say this much.
According to the Bible, God, Jesus, and Paul, as I recall stating here before, sex can be defined as "the two becoming one flesh." Paul even goes so far as to state that joining with a harlot will bring about this one-fleshness with her. I would cite chapter and verse, but it may be more instructive for you to look them up yourself–do a search on "one flesh" in your favorite Bible program.
For me the bottom line in scripture is that we don't get married to have sex, rather we have sex to get married.
So, in my "interpretation" of those passages, if you do have sex with her, you have created a marital bond with her *prior to* creating the social and legal bonds. I'll let you chew on the ramifications of that for now.
I pray you find your balance, and if need be, see if you can move the marriage earlier. You might consider a simple ceremony to get married earlier, then have the fuller ceremony meant for everyone else as a means of publicly marrying her. Sort of a confirmation ceremony of what you've already consummated. That is, if you really don't believe you can last. Keep in mind, however, how she will react to all this is important as well. I've often wondered if our pre-marital playing around (we avoided sexual intercourse, but did everything else pretty much) resulted in her problems with sex in our early years of marriage. She's over it now, 37 years after marriage, but those early years were a real struggle for me.
I'm praying for you to not only have the self-control, but to have it for her sake as well as your own.
I truly appreciate your dilemma, and I think much of the counsel here hits the mark.
I think the statement you made about believing your fiance is "asexual" and PacMan's response to it are very much worth your giving some very serious deep, long, and genuine thought to. Marriage is a 50+ years commitment. That is a long time. Do you truly know what being married to an asexual wife will mean to you? If you do and you still feel ready to enter into a lifelong commitment then I'd say go for it. But, if you don't I think you should certainly put all forms of sex "on hold" for now, and spend time in deep study, deep prayer, and deep conversation.
I have been married decades and the role of sex in our marriage has been a huge component of it, such that if one of us was asexual that would have changed the relationship entirely. In a nutshell, asexual implies she is "ok" with having sex, and even derives a measure of satisfaction from it, but she can take it or leave it, which means her aspiring to be an erotic life partner for you is likely never to happen. She will "go along" with sex, but initiating it, or desiring to be an erotic person, or finding sex fascinating, fun, and interesting, is very likely not going to happen. Perhaps the first year or so will not reveal this as fully as years 2 through 20. Sex as a "duty" grows old very fast…
There are some great sites for you to consider, and if you just google "what is an asexual person" you will quickly find them.
Please understand I am not saying you shouldn't get married, or that your fiance is a bad match for you, or that she is defective in any way, but…if she is truly an asexual person then you both really need to think through the implications to your marriage.
You have my deepest apologies if this offends or wounds you or your fiance. You will be in our prayers…
Hello;
Personally, I think you should take responsibility for your lack of control and choices. If you love her and respect her, then don't put both of you in positions and places where you know you’ll fail or sin.
And , btw, sex is sex. ?
Over the last few years, I too have grown to be more open-minded, and I understand how that can be an extremely important part of who you are. In that open-mindedness, consider this idea: it's possible to have and act according to an incomplete or imperfect definition of sex. I sense some perfectionism in that you don't want to settle on any one definition because it might not be 100% right. That's me too, but I've realized that a perfectly true and comprehensive definition is simply not possible, and even if it were, it would be too cumbersome to use. There would have to be a whole dictionary-sized book just to cover what's sexually okay and what's not! However, through honest consideration, submissive prayer and diligent study, you can come to one that's pretty good. And remember that you'll never get anywhere if you try to make everything 100% perfect, but if you get to 95% and take action on it, you'll do well.
The bible seems to be quite vague about what constitutes sex, except for intercourse, which it's quite clear about. People have VASTLY different definitions, so again, you need to determine what you think through a combination of consideration, prayer, and study of the bible and a variety of respected biblical resources. I won't assert my personal view as absolute truth, but I think what you've been doing already (sucking on breasts) is well within the definition of sex. Some people even think dry-humping to the point of mutual orgasm is acceptable. With no intended offense to them, that sounds absurd to me. Physiologically (in regards to arousal and orgasm patterns), the same thing is happening in our bodies as when we have intercourse, so I don't think the technicality of "clothes on and no penetration" has any merit.
With that in mind, I humbly submit my personal definition for your consideration. I think it's safe, simple, brief, easy to work with and (hopefully) close to the truth: "Any act that is intended to cause, or would reasonably cause, sexual arousal or sexual pleasure." I'm sure some will think that's too broad, and I respect that. Biblically speaking, when there's a relatively broad gray area, I tend to think it's better to stay at the whiter end of the spectrum. It's safer, and I don't think there are really any downsides to staying "extra pure" as long as you make sure to recognize that sex WITHIN marriage is still a good thing.
And as for a God-given definition or truth, I've learned over the course of my life that God won't usually just show you "here's the absolute truth" or "here's exactly what you should do." While he does give us some explicit commands, he mostly gives us general principles. I don't know God's full intent, but this might be to force us to grow closer to him as we more intently seek out how to rightly apply those principles.
I also want to briefly echo PacMan's point about building self-control. If you lack in that area, as you apparently do by your own admission, God in his love for you will challenge you to grow in that area. And that growth will mean difficult situations where you have to exercise self-control, just like a muscle, to strengthen it. In times of temptation, know God is there and ready to help if you call on him.
In regards to your girlfriend being "asexual," that needs to be cleared up. As PacMan said, you might just be misunderstanding what that actually means and mislabeling her. If she really is asexual (i.e. very low or none of her own interest in sex at all, and she would be fine with never having sex), that is a very destructive thing to marriage, and I would gently but seriously caution you about entering marriage if this is the case. It's not an absolute deal-breaker, but you both need to be in deep and strong agreement about ways to properly approach that to prevent it from coming between you in the future.
As for separation, I think there are ways you can be together and still combat temptation. You don't have to be completely apart, just resolve to never be alone together. You can still hang out at group events, double-dates, church/bible study, etc.
As for each of your school and job situations, I think there are ways to get married before either of you have your ideal jobs. It might require an unconventional living arrangement, but if you're creative enough, there are ways to live cheaply. Could you get married and live on two part-time jobs while going through school? "It is better to marry than to burn with passion" (1 Cor 7:9, ESV), and since you've already been getting burned, or at least dangerously close to the flames, you might want to find a way to get married sooner rather than later. That's of course assuming you have the asexuality issue worked out and everything else in line for marriage to be a wise course of action. What I'm saying is that you don't necessarily have to follow the same education-career-relationship timeline or pattern as everyone else.
I'm praying for your purity, self-control and strength and wisdom in Christ, brother!
I'm glad to hear you both want to be counselors; I've been that for 18 years – in private practice for most of those years. First, let's talk realities about that job before we talk about sex. I don't know what state you are in; I am in IL, and I’ve also had a practice northeast PA. Working for someone else pays little – 35-40K per year unless you are willing to see 30+ clients a week. Working for yourself is profitable depending on where you are. The closer to a city the better due to population. It's not too hard to make six figures, but take out insurance, office rental, marketing, tax, and you are down quite a bit, but still livable so long as one of you has health insurance from someplace else. You could work for a school or hospital, or at least one of you could for insurance. It all takes an MS and licensure, which takes about three years. So, if you are undergrads, you have a long way to go. But your girlfriend's goal of one of you having an income that would support you both is extremely wise. As far as knowing you are supposed to be married – get counseling on that. I am hearing things that I would ask you both about if you were my clients, things that need to be addressed before diving into marriage.
Sex – God's gift. But you're asking the wrong question. I'm a guy, so I hear you clearly – what does God allow and what is off-limits now? That is not what you should be asking, the real question is this – what makes your girlfriend feel most loved, most treasured, and brings her and you closest to Jesus? Forget what is allowed or not allowed. It sounds rather selfish honestly, and going into marriage with selfishness and/or guilt is a great problem to overcome. Listen, my wife and I just had our eighth anniversary yesterday. She was a widow and I was divorced when we met on a Christian dating site nine years ago. We had both been married over twenty-five years and were in our 50's. How do adults show love and affection? Right – sex. But we determined to wait because it is right. It was as hard as you know what. We call it "The Time of Beautiful Agony," and it was, again and again. But we are so grateful to God that we have no guilt. That is a gift you can give to your girlfriend that will last for the entirety of your marriage. So, ask the right question. Use masturbation, alone, by yourself. It is a gift from God for these times. But treat your girlfriend for who she is, one whom Jesus died for, one who is a child of God.