Porn and Erotica Discussion with my Wife
Last year our church did a multi-part study on porn and sex. It happened shortly after I told my wife I was masturbating to porn to cope with our decades long poor sex life. This included lack of frequency, lack of creativity, and a general lack of non-sexual marital priorities.
It wasn’t a confession as much as it was a matter of fact statement that talk was cheap, priorities were lacking, but that I would rather pursue renewed intimacy with her than solo masturbation to lingerie models and x-rated scenes. I thought the conversation went well and she was open to trying new things to spice up our relationship, including what I would call erotica. I was surprised at the amount of progress we were making.
However, after the final sermon (I was away on a business trip), my wife started to waver, so I wrote a response to the sermon and talked with her again. We had another good discussion and I wanted to share what I wrote in case it resonates with other couples here. I know the topic can be controversial but this is what I have come to believe.
Honey, I listened to the sermon online. I have several thoughts. I figured I would put it in writing (and you can add it to my growing collection, ha).
First, us enjoying measured doses of erotica or sexual imagery together in the context of our marriage is one thing. And then there is “solo porn” which would be masturbating to magazines and videos alone.
I believe that taking a step to enjoy erotica together as man and wife is up to married spouses. That’s covered per the “marriage bed” in Hebrews. We have freedom to experiment to some degree just as we have freedom to try new sexual positions. That could be discussing fantasies, going to a sex store together, or using sex toys, just to name a few.
This pursuit of renewed heat and what we choose to do is the moral equivalent to drinking and gambling, topics the church tends to be very judgmental about, but we as a married couple have freedom to explore. If it provides renewed passion and connection, so be it. I think it’s like chocolate: erotica can be nice and pleasurable in measured doses.
That’s exactly what I want with you. That’s what I wrote about, and have discussed with you several times. I think I was pretty open and detailed about what I would like to do, and also discuss in terms of my fantasies as well. I found nothing in the sermon that should make either of us concerned to pursue new fun and different ways of pleasure together.
As for solo porn, he’s generally right. But what was left out is that men generally get turned on visually and that’s ok. Of course, some women do as well. That’s biology. But porn is not the preferred outlet. It can be very unhealthy depending on what is going on (like alcohol and gambling) but porn (and alcohol and gambling) is not the apocalypse.
As for some other things about the sermon: I will say that what you and I can confidently and truthfully say about married sexual practices and pleasure, and what a pastor is willing to say from the pulpit about those same things are very different.
There are topics about sexual arousal, desire and visual excitement and your own preferences in our bedroom that are absolutely acceptable in marriage BUT a pastor would probably never publicly admit that they are acceptable. But that doesn’t mean that it’s not true. You just won’t hear it discussed and affirmed in a 45 minute sermon that’s focused on extreme examples of negative, unhealthy sexual behavior, because those are guaranteed to get an “amen.” The church is still hardwired to frame the discussion on married sexual practices in the negative. “Thou. Shalt. Not.” And it’s not helpful.
On the examples he gave about guys and porn, I have to say this. Me masturbating to Penthouse is not going to result in homosexuality or destructive behavior. Having a margarita will not make you an alcoholic. Playing BlackJack in Vegas will not make us gamble away our life savings. I wish Christians could have an honest conversation about porn, alcohol, and gambling without hysterics and worse case scenarios.
On porn and brains being rewired: Absolutely. Anything you repetitively do rewires your brain. Practicing the same sport over and over again, learning a new language. These are part of the studies he referred to. In fact, doesn’t having married sex with your spouse over and over, and enjoying the same positions rewire our brains? Answer: yes. That’s good.
Because having your brain rewired from sexual arousal isn’t necessarily bad. A more accurate thing to say is that being compulsive is unhealthy. But not all porn is compulsive. Do we believe all drinking is compulsive? Is all gambling is compulsive? It’s the same sort of old wives tale here as it relates to Penthouse magazine.
The pastor rightly focused on one gender during the sermon. However, it was the wrong one. If we want to talk in generalities that’s fine. So here is a generality. It is very unpopular to say in our modern Christian church, often influenced by Feminist identity (whether we care to admit it or not): “Sexually repressed or overly conservative Christian women with a failed sense of priorities often enable married Christian men to seek porn for pleasure and connection.”
This generality is of course not always true, I know that. Although I think it’s true more times than the church may care to admit. But we only hear sermons about the horrors of men masturbating to lingerie models.
Sex is a difficult topic for the church and the church has historically been very wrong about it. Not even 100 years ago, your pastor probably would have told you that the female orgasm was dangerous. The early church refused to accept Song of Solomon as an erotic example of married bliss. They had to “spiritualize” the physical. In fact, they would call Song of Solomon “porn.”
And what’s the difference in getting sexually aroused reading Song of Solomon, and getting aroused from a “secular” erotic novel? The pastor repeatedly condemned things that were “intended to arouse” and make us “sexually excited.” He used those terms in his sermon but hello, that’s Song of Solomon. That’s no different than Christians condemning Harry Potter and its references to “witchcraft” but then recommending The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
The truth is that pure sexual arousal tends to scare Christians. Then they try to limit married sexual expression by pigeonholing sex as “an act of worship” or “Holy.” They want to spiritualize and restrain a physical act just like the church did to Song of Solomon. I believe because they are uncomfortable with sexual married freedom.
The pastor did something quite similar when discussing married sex during the sermon. He said men should ask “Will God commend me when I stand before him?” And “Am I cultivating something beautiful in her heart?” Ok, that’s fine. But do I really have to ask that laundry list questions every time I’m cumming on you? At your request? But sure, I can happily say “yes” to all of the above if it’s you and me together.
Regarding “porneia” and porn. I don’t think the Greek word “porneia” in the NT applies to visual or written arousal like modern erotica. Porneia referred to prostitution. So let’s not pretend jerking off to Penthouse is the same as paying to have literal sex with a hooker. Or that being angry with someone is the same thing as killing them (because Jesus referred to both).
But here is the most important point about “porneia”. Assume the pastor is correct that it means written erotica, and written erotica is off limits for married couples. Then doesn’t it mean Song of Solomon is porneia because it is dripping with explicit references to sex? Including oral sex? Should we start talking about fear over brains being hardwired because of Song of Solomon? Or is this another Harry Potter / CS Lewis thing?
I believe getting aroused together from erotica is a matter of degree, mutual preference, and good judgment between married couples. It’s ok to explore, just use good judgment. Fear of something new or different should not be our standard.
I guess I’ll end with this. Do you think your husband is an attentive lover? One who makes your pleasure a priority, pursues you, desires you? One who takes practical steps to spend time together outside the bedroom? I ask because the pastor literally said I’m “dehumanized” by watching (and enjoying) women masturbating and couples enjoying sex. So maybe I am sub-human. Or perhaps the pastor is like others who can’t give a measured perspective on this topic.
These are hard topics and the pastor is doing his best. But we have to be willing to uncover truth and nuance, even if it’s not in the sermon.
Wow, this is so accurate! I really appreciated it. I too have asked these same questions as I observe the broken state of Christian marriages today. It's my prayer that I will NOT be the wife who drives her husband away. We need to stop calling evil what God has called good. In the marriage context, sex is good. Take advantage of it!
Thanks LL Lady. We are still working on it. Had an interesting time together over vacation where we used erotica together and contrary to all the doom and gloom predictions I hear…we are just fine. I hope to continue exploring with her.
LLL….You are correct in that we have been somewhat conditioned as 'good Christians' to see many things that are natural and good as evil….And the ridiculous idea that many men and women have that sexual relations are to be used as 'bargaining chip' to get what you want from your spouse..That is never a healthy environment if it is truly done in a manipulative way. I know many couples Including my wife and I who "played' with the idea of sex as a reward for a job well done…IE.. She might say "if you help get my flowers planted, I'll make it worth your while..or I would suggest a night time frolic for some heavy work around the house or yard. But that was for 'play' not serious bargaining.
I have an essay I am working on concerning how to make a marriage a natural 'routine' of mental and physical touch and guiding each other to a regular situation of both physical and mental intimacy that would last a lifetime…
But I must stress that unless two people have some rare physical inabilities … the use of nonsexual touch can work wonders to facilitate good mental touch that actually is more permanent and more important. I said nonsexual touch but still using what I call sensual touch …But its a work in progress and not finished yet. But again,,, over the years we've all seen couples who dont seem to ever touch each other and the relationship can appear cold. We should welcome touch and intimacy from our spouses, as well as a sexual relationship! God wants. us to have it all!
BTW, with all your focus on how to be a close, attentive, and yes…sensual wife (both mentally and physically…) I cant imagine you would drive a husband away!
During routine conversations, my second wife had a habit of saying, "What do you want to bet?" It is a common saying. But, one day, I decided to give her an illustration of the fact that "words have meaning".
I told her that, from now on, I would have a "standard bet". The bet was that if I win, then she gives me sex. And, if I lose, then I give her sex. (In reality, either way, we BOTH win!!)
Sadly, she never took me up on it.
❤️❤️
Thanks for your post, but I disagree with pretty much everything you said. I wish I had more time to give a fuller response.
I will summarise for now that we drifted further and further into porn, me watching it regularly, us occasionally together, I excused my addiction to it because I thought sex together was better as a result. "It's normal" "it's a way to learn about new techniques" "if we do it together it's ok". All excuses that made porn a necessary tool to get me aroused on the lead up to sex with her. Wrong, wrong and wrong. I am free of it right now. We talked openly about it together and said we would stop. We have. She checks in with me occasionally, (yesterday actually), to make me accountable.
Sex is SO much better without it. My desire for her has increased. The habit of looking at other women out in the street has hugely decreased – I habit that had become normal in my eyes.
I have so much more to say, maybe I'll come back to this later.
As for SofS. It's full of sexual text about YOUR wife, words spoken directly to HER, not about women in general so I don't think it quite compares to porn, which is not about your wife.
Cut it out. Stop it. Tell her. Get accountable. It will be better in a few weeks or months, not straight away. And she will love you for it.
An incomplete reply from a very imperfect bloke.
Britbloke, Quick thoughts… The definition of porn has changed I believe. Seems as if now it means any viewing of, listening to, or reading anything erotic. It would be great if we could keep the meaning biblically accurate. In keeping with the idea that sex is to be between a man and his wife, as you stated about Song of Solomon. Do you think we should look for a sermon that expounds on that book of the Bible? What if there was a movie that depicted every erotic detail of the book. Btw, does anyone know if a movie has ever been made of sos? Would it be wrong to view or read or listen to the things talked about in that book as long as those things were done between a married couple? Seems to me that is rhetorical. Personally I think there is a great amount of joy in seeing a married couple acting in ways pleasing to God in their married life. Bottom line… nudity and sex should not necessarily be considered porn if kept in biblical bounds. This is topic that has been discussed quite a lot in many other stories, discussions and comments in MH and there is a lot of wisdom in there too. I need to get up and make coffee now and enjoy some time with my wife before work.
I agree totally with you Britbloke. It is my opinion that porn is very destructive on many levels. We are not to look on other women with lust. We are to focus on our spouse only in sex. Just make videos of the two of you. Of her pleasuring herself or the husband pleasuring himself. That would be exciting and put passion in the marriage bed without involving other people. No one can honestly say that Western society is better since the introduction and prevalence of pornography everywhere.
Thanks for articulating what was on my mind.
Just my opinion here. But porn never made my life any better when I was in college. And if anything, it worked against me when it came to finally falling in love with Vanessa. Even though she had big boobs like I saw in porn, she was too chubby in my porn-conditioned opinion and that made attraction take longer to occur than it would have if I hadn’t seen thousands of “perfect” nude bodies online and been conditioned by that. So in spite of having some of the best physical qualities I loved, big tits and ass, kind of exotic-looking, not to mention being perfect for me regarding personality, she just wasn’t “good enough” until I started to let the Lord rewrite my views on what makes a woman beautiful.
That experience has changed my opinion about porn. I don’t think it helps a marriage to look at pictures and videos of others. That said I am no prude and have some gray areas where I can get a bit freaky (my wife and I love to be overheard, and we’ve discussed my fantasy of being watched, or having sex in proximity to other consenting couples who are having sex, though we’ve never acted on it yet).
But the porn industry in my opinion is very evil, and it’s wise to be careful lest one falls down a slippery slope that leads to regrets. None of this is said judgmentally though. We’re all trying to figure things out as we seek the Lord.
Thanks Britbloke, I agree that erotica is not for you and your spouse but I believe that -responsible- exploration may deepen intimacy for other couples.
My point is that we shouldn't judge based on one couple's poor experience with it. It would be like me telling you "oh, don't ever do oral sex because it led down a path of debauchery and eventually extreme bondage sex for us and it created problems for our marriage."
I don't believe Song of Solomon is "porn." It is erotica.
And it is Definitely NOT about your spouse or mine. That's a complete hermeneutical error. Let's be up front about this Scripture because it is LITERALLY and matter of factually and unapologetically about another couple. Period.
When we read SoS, we are reading about another couple's sexual practices and their arousal. A third party. Bible believing Christians have written about couples reading SoS together to create arousal. I agree, great! But I don't limit it to one book of the Bible. There is nothing in the Bible that forces us to limit it because the Bible is not a sex manual.
There are other sources to spice up sex. Just communicate as a couple and be responsible.
You raise a lot of good points here, and it’s a lot to chew on. I think men, women, and the church are all to blame, but how do we fix it?
With all the couples I know, sex is only discussed in hushed whispers, and bringing it up in church would be scandalous.
How do we take back the explicit marital relations that God intended to be so beautiful? I don’t know.
I would like to also add that while your sex life may not be what you want it to be, the fact that you can have such an open and honest discussion with your wife does say something for your relationship.
I don’t know many, (if any), couples that could discuss this subject and remain civil.
Thanks. Sharing Erotica together is not for every couple any more than alcohol is for every Christian. For some it is a stumbling block. For others it can be a spark to ignite. But I think Christian couples need freedom to explore without the harsh judgment of others. I think more marriages have broken up over lack of sexual communication than over-communication about inner wants, desire and fantasy.
Let me just say this—Leader2024, as a woman, I completely agree with everything you’ve written, and I commend you for your honesty in speaking openly with your wife and sharing so vulnerably with us here. Your points are thoughtful and insightful, showcasing the kind of deep, holistic reflection that aligns with the level of faith we profess.
Personally, I’ve had to do a great deal of inner work to untangle myself from years of conditioning and misconceptions around sex and sexuality that stem from the church. While there’s so much I could say on the topic, I’ll focus on what Britbloke and Texasman76 mentioned. If you carefully consider their words, it’s clear that they see porn as destructive because it has been an “issue” for them. But just because one person struggles with an addiction doesn’t mean everyone does. This is precisely what Paul addresses in Romans 14, particularly verse 2:
“Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.”
People need to do their own inner healing, honor what God is showing them as a personal area of struggle, and not impose their own fears and problems on others. Forcing everyone into the same restrictions isn’t freedom—it’s behavior modification and control, not true Christianity.
I say this in love, not to condemn or offend, but to illuminate that porn itself is not inherently the problem—it’s a mirror that reveals where you might need more work. For example, if someone struggles with alcohol, it may point to unresolved issues beyond the substance itself. Perhaps their drinking stems from feeling insecure and out of control, rooted in childhood experiences of poverty or bullying. They drink to numb their pain, and over time, it becomes destructive, harming their relationships and life. If that person were to say, “Stay away from alcohol—it’s bad,” you or I might respond, “I can enjoy a glass of wine without issue—your struggle doesn’t apply to me.”
The same principle applies here. It’s about recognizing personal struggles and addressing the underlying issues, rather than universalizing them as problems for everyone.
Speaking from my own experience, as a virgin before marriage, I used “ethical” erotica and porn to help me better understand my own desires, preferences, and what might bring me pleasure. It also helped with arousal since I need both visual and audio stimulation. Once I got married, I no longer needed those tools because I have my husband. But I’m so grateful that I had the wisdom and freedom in Christ to explore a healthy way to abstain while still learning about my body, arousal, and desires. If I had allowed male pastors or groupthink in the church to dictate my approach, I could have ended up a sexually repressed Christian wife, unable to enjoy the fullness of God’s blessing in sex.
Instead, I now enjoy a vibrant sexual marriage, and that is God’s best for me. And I’m truly glad about it. You’re welcome.
Well said joyofsexx. Using erotica together as a couple can also be a tool to open new discussions to learn about each other's sexuality on a deeper level. Too often the church condemns certain sexual activities rather than focusing on how people can enjoy the gift of sex for themselves and in their relationships. I personally think this can be just as destructive as people who use erotica in a harmful way.
Thanks joyofsexx. I was terrified to tell her this. But I was going a direction that wasn't good and felt that being honest was better than continuing on the same path. She's a good woman, took it well and I commend her for opening up to some new ways of viewing sex, pleasure and erotica.
We went on vacation recently and really let loose, wow. Things she would have condemned 20 years ago. And our pastor would not have approved ha.
But we are fine. She is happy, she's not hurt by erotica and not threatened by it. The only thing that changed about us is now the secrets are revealed and we can work on understanding each other and work to be more creative. It's not perfect but certainly better than before.
I concur what joyofseex said about having the ability to communicate these topis with your spouse! That is outstanding.
For years, I could not bring any deep topics of sexuality up with my wife because of our church and purity culture upbringing and indoctrination of sex by the church, we could not safely discuss sex topics. It was quickly met with judgment.
As a married partner, we are responsible for ourselves and to our spouse. I am responsible to be sure I am a safe place for her to bring topics (any) to me without judgment towards her and to express my viewpoints and opinions in a respectful way. If safety is not a primary value in a relationship, no topic is safe to discuss.
In the areas of pornography, the last 100 year have provided extensive visual media that history has never dealt with. To texasman76, I agree, it would be difficult to say any significant good has come from it, but just the opposite. It has taken something good (human body nudity and human sexual connection) and distorted it for self gratification and abuse.
In regards to the Bible and SofS as being erotic. Well it is a story of a love expressed and fulfilled in a sexual embrace, it is beautiful. The church and its leaders don't know how to handle this well. It has not since the church began. Even St Augustine considered prostitution a necessary evil. Wow, let that sink in. What if one of our prominent church leaders from any denomination stated that today?
We as Christians have done a disservice to the celebration of human nudity and sexuality over the centuries' and allowed the world to define it for us.
May we first have a healthy sexual appreciation for our own bodies and how God made us to celebrate and be secure in the pleasure he has blessed us with. I remember years ago having solo pleasure when I was single, and not using any porn or visual images in my mind (yes its possible men), and feeling the gift of masturbation and release from God. It began the journey of removing shame from my life. I have often done the same as a married man too.
The other moral considerations regarding porn are the people performing in them. How are these people treated? Are they married and performing with each other? If not, is it merely simulated or solo?
I think my view is if the titillation is only making you desire your spouse, and the people within the performance are not commiting sin, then it seems a man and woman could watch it for ideas and inspiration to enhance things in the bedroom.
My wife was into that 50 Shades of Grey book and saw the movie. I'm not sure what all that is about, but I am pretty certain there are naked people in the movie. It never bothered me.
My husband and I try to have sex regularly. In doing so, we occasionally use sex toys, talk about sex fantasies, play sexual games, engage in sex role plays, listen to audio sex stories, read written sex stories like the ones here on MH, and watch erotic videos. We mix our sexual play up to keep it fresh and exciting. As someone else mentioned, we view all of these activities as tools (including watching videos) to get us focused on connecting with each other and strengthening our relationship through sex.
Just as we eat food regularly, we eat different kids of food to keep things fresh and enjoyable. We have our favorite meals of course and love to eat them, but if we ate them continuously, we run the risk of only wanting to eat that one meal or more likely getting tired of that meal and never wanting to eat it again. We view our various sexual activities in the same way, so shaking things up without too much of one thing keeps our play interesting and engaging while also regular.
I agree that addiction is a problem. I also agree that everything we do (good and bad) re-wires our brain (that is how we are made). Engaging in an activity does not mean that you will become addicted to it even if you enjoy it. As someone said, talk with your spouse and if you choose to engage in anything sexual, do it together and avoid engaging in sexual activities that exclude your spouse.
Our sexual repertoire has grown over the years to include all sorts of exciting sex toys, furniture, vibrators, games, videos (including home made ones), stories, fantasies, etc., Some of this expansion is from a desire to keep things fresh and interesting (even the best sex position can get old if that’s the only position you use), but also sometimes we use these as tools to just get us focused on sex so we can then enjoy each other together!
@Another Couple
You guys sound a lot like us. We have regular sex, and I think that’s key. For a sexual relationship to grow and mature, it’s so important to understand that this aspect of our life together is a story we are both writing. With us, regular sex has always led to experimentation and a desire to make our sex more exciting, deeper and more expansive. This has, over the years included the use of toys, role playing, explorations into kinks we might not ever have known the other has.
When we were younger, masturbation was more prevalent until we matured and began to learn how to please one another in a way that we by ourselves couldn’t accomplish. Yes, sometimes sex is a quickie and at times, it’s not nearly what last Saturday night was, but our desire to learn each other’s quirks, to dive into each other’s fantasies and explore new boundaries means we are going in a direction that can reach new heights and new pleasures.
All this starts with regular sex and the openness and intimacy that regular sex encourages. Thanks for your post!
❤️❤️
Porn or erotic videos is a slippery slope I think. The bodies in porn are not realistic. The women are thin, petite, and still have big boobs, surgically enhanced ass. Not like real women usually look. There’s women in real life with big goods but they’re often at least a bit heavy. There’s petite women in real life, most of them I’ve seen are small to average in the breast and ass department. Just my observation. I don’t think porn leads to a healthy view of the human body and can hamper sexual arousal because your wife doesn’t look like what’s online even if she may have some of the qualities. And your own body as a man won’t look as impressive usually, the men in porn are well endowed and have the benefit of flattering camera angles. This reasons could lead to self doubt.
Just how much porn have you watched to come to these conclusions? Reminds me of people reviewing a mainstream movie and condemning it, never having seen it. Tremendous number of women have had breast augmented breasts that have never been in porn. Yes there are genre of porn that uses exceptionally large breasts. But that is far from the norm. Small, large, short tall, old young, natural or fake, it’s all out there. Single women with the camera on their laptop, or couples with more sophisticated camera the husband controls. Scripted or couples just being themselves. Name your kink there are people willing to pay their college tuition or home mortgage by showing their sex life. Condemn it all or be more informed and go after the now few bad actors you can find just like the Hollywood casting couch or US president and his interns. There are people out there making bad decisions. To cast all erotic material as a result of someone being forced or human traffic is highly in informed.
I think some of your gentle pushback on your pastor’s sermon is warranted. I’m quite annoyed when pastors overreaach, and this is an example. He wanted to share his opinions about porn & sex, and sticky note a few Greek words and cherry-picked verses to this. No one can call the porn industry evil while making excuses for the existence of the social media industry (which is far more reaching, more addictive, and more profit-driven). Some of these sermon points are tired and old. The Bible is not a textbook on how a marriage bed should look like (and that includes SOS). I wish pastors would stop this overreach that’s been going on for 3 decades!
Leader, when a lady is “watching (and enjoying) women masturbating” could this be only because she is merely identifying with the ones she's watching? Just wondering.
Coming soon,
To begin with I don't think it's any secret that I am attracted to women although I have never had sex with a woman but come very close to it a number of times, and consider myself bisexual.
This is also fully known to my husband and also something that we use in our sexual relationship during fantasy and role play.
I don't make a habit out of watching porn, although I confess that I have on the number of occasions. And usually when I have it's either watching another woman masturbating or lesbian.
And while watching it was with M. my husband.
We all know the problems with that exist with porn. That it's more available than it ever was and the younger audience than there ever was has it at their fingertips. That there's a huge problem with sex trafficking and things such as revenge porn.
That it is Big money for those who run the sites, and in search of greater profits always push the envelope into those things which are unacceptable in our everyday society putting forth taboo subjects and creating whole sexual movements among people who changed their identities according to it. And on and on.
That being said, an open honest and level-headed discussion about it and both the positive and negative aspects of it has to be how we look at this.
This was something that my husband and I had discussed on multiple occasions. And as I said, this is not something we commonly watch. We both agree that the best porn is us. That's why we have often take pictures and videos of ourselves (while also very careful about how we store these so that they are not something anyone could just find.) it's not uncommon for either one of us to either use these photos and videos during solo time submasturbation or to watch them together as a couple.
And went a part it's not unusual for either of us to send a photo or two between us stimulating an erotic story discussion between us.
Our reasoning is, the best response to porn addiction or infidelity, is for us to be one another's pornstars and sexual affairs, to our own fantasies and roleplays, our own flirting and seductions. Making ourselves available to one another for sexual purposes in order to keep the spark alive between us.
Someone that we have been following for years both in podcasts and on YouTube and that we trust very much is a woman named Rena Malik M.D. she's a pelvic surgeon and discusses all things sexual. She has some very good content on the discussions of the subject of porn.
So back to where I started and answer to your question.
Just like men do, it's not unusual for women to see other women as beautiful and sensual.
Where that may stop at that point for other women for me it arouses me at times. And usually in my fantasies but again, sometimes mainstream movies, and more rarely in porn I have watched homemade or amateur because I can identify with them more and it's more realistic. And yes I have masturbated alone but also with my husband.
This practice has come about after years of shame about the fact that I felt about myself and these feelings. Being able to explore this with my best friend and lover is something that helps me to accept myself for who I am.
Lady L. 💋💦💦💦
Have I watched video of women masturbating and been turned on ? Yes of course I guess I always thought everyone male and female would be. Have I kissed a girl and liked it? Yes. Was it occasionally been more than a kiss when I was young? But I never considered myself anything other than straight. Maybe I should reexamine that but does it matter? Yes my husband knows of my attraction to the female form and he is happy about it. Maybe most of us are to quick to judge others and not willing to be honest about our own desires. Most porn is crap. Some of it even harmful. But it’s not just big boobs and adultery. And saying you are addicted to porn is merely making an excuse for watching so you don’t have to stop. Most women I have seen in my limited viewing of erotica, are average in breast size and beauty, maybe below average. In the end it’s like anything you can abuse whether it’s food, video games, YouTube, shopping, alcohol, or chocolate. All can be enjoyed in moderation if you find the right kind. Even beneficial.
I remember reading a definition of porn that said something like, "contained or encouraged illicit sex".
Pretty much that means if it is a married couple or self-masturbation it is licit.
I have seen in several places that Middle Ages were more open about sex. People saw it around. It is natural just like seeing farm animals mating in the field. Nothing immoral about it, nor porn, as long as it is licit sex, which much isn't, if i doubt, avoid. If you think you have a problem with it, avoid.
I remember seeing Kathleen Hema on youtube explaining that seeing porn is not going to destroy your kids, most people are fine with having seen it. Do need to explain to kids that much of it is fake, you are not going to learn about sex from it.
There is nothing wrong or sinful by becoming sexually aroused because of what you have seen, live or in media, or from your thoughts, if uncomfortable, avoid turn your attention to something more wholesome, like your spouse or marital sex or masturbation focused.
Many of us have been sexually excited to engage in licit sex; fuck our spouse or jack and jill while or after reading MH stories.
SilverGold, God bless you, wonderful comment.
well put Sarah. ❤️
Lady L. 💋
I made a profile just to reply to this.
It seems like a lot of people in favor of porn (in whatever form, but specifically I’m speaking of the culture definition of it) are prioritizing pleasure over people. While I understand and have witnessed porn with married people they are often on sites that promote videos of sex workers who are being trafficked. If you reach out to any human trafficking organization they will tell you from working with that population that these women (and men) are often sexually abused as children, exploited in their poverty as they grow and their body is owned for the enjoyment of others and they often don’t see a fraction of the money their videos generate. And if you think only fans or something would be better think again, pimps went digital. What you see isn’t always what you get.
As for the thought process (that I am over generalizing) “my wife isn’t putting out so I can watch/do what I want.” I find that so sad. More than a conversation on theology (which is what these puritanical churches do in the other direction btw) I want to plead with anyone reading this to pray and seek the Lord. Abstain from all sexual acts for a time as suggested in the Bible and let the Holy Spirit guide your sex life the way we lean on Him to guide every other aspect of our life.
As a woman, I really love reading stories on her from real people about how they’re sex life has improved over the course of a long life together. I love bringing God into every aspect of our lives. I love that old dogs can learn new tricks so to speak. And I personally love having sex with my husband. As the person with the higher sex drive it’s been hard to navigate but I trust God and the relationship we’re building to continue to support bigger and better things for us as we grow together.
Also as someone who desires more if I stumbled in my self control in a way that I have been convicted by the Holy Spirit I have never blame my husband for that. It might be a warning sign that other parts of our relationship also need work, emotional and spiritual intimacy. Lack of communication etc.
Also just like how some early Christian’s were convicted of eating meat sacrifices, if our spouse has the more sensitive conviction we are called to honor that. Their conviction alone is what causes us to sin. To go against our conscience, God forbid have a spouse that would bully you into it for their own pleasure instead of lead you into righteous. I believe as wives we tend to be the more sensitive partner but it’s our strength as much as it can be our weakness.
My husband and I really enjoyed the book The Great Sex Rescue. Everything by that author is God honoring AND backed up by research and not her own biases.
I already know someone is going to find this condemning or whatever we think the church is getting wrong— but I’m mostly writing this for people like me who read this and felt deeply burdened by the over simplification of the Fathers heart and the things that truly satisfy us… from a wife that loves sex and has very little hang ups— praying this finds you well
Sjm
First off welcome to the group this is a wonderful community and your viewpoints are very valid and appreciated.
Indeed the use of porn is a gray area, and everything you say about being sensitive to the holy Spirit and honoring God so very true.
All I can say is that an our late 60s, we have come through this wonderful time in our life having had the sexual problems that many people have within their relationships.
But being on this end of it I can say that we love each other more and enjoy our sex life together more than we ever have due to the fact that we are completely honest about everything.
I've pretty much stated everything in our case in a previous comment.
I understand many people do not agree with our point of view or condone the way we live our life. But we have peace about it.
Life in all of its facets is fraught with peril. Due to the fallen nature of man it will be many who are abused in many different ways sometimes the clothing we are wearing is made in a sweatshop by children who are slaves, or the electronics we buy may come from a country which considers their laborers not worth much more than the product that they make.
Much as previously in the United States we had considered people of African descent to be less than human, and therefore worthy to be treated no better than an animal. Because the same with the sexual aspect of life. You are absolutely correct in what you say about sex workers and trafficking, and as I stated in my previous comment the world of porn online as well.
Well there are those who are cheering their own sexual life through video or audio, or those who are being paid for their work in the industry there are also those who are being used and abused for the benefit of others.
In the end the question is do we throw out the baby with the bath water. I fear that with the Advent of artificial intelligence things are not going to get any better but this world is rushing headlong into all of it.
As we have been told, the truth will set us free.
And first and foremost in our relationships needs to come the honor and truthfulness and patience that marriage and monogamy require. And that means being able to communicate with one another. The one person that we commit to as our sexual partner to meet our sexual needs about our own needs thoughts and desires. And be able to communicate without fear of judgment rejection or loss.
In this way two people can operate together as one led by the Spirit. To take the right steps in all things. And of course we will miss that in time and make mistakes but that's where Grace comes in. It's incorrecting or mistakes that we learn as we grow.
Again thank you for your words they are valuable and I very much appreciate you joining and speaking your viewpoint to spur us all to consider our own ways.
Lady L ,💋
So, everyone, If Jim and I do a sex video of the two of us, just a fixed camera witnessing us doing it in every conceivable position (including anal) is that considered porn?
If Jim and I did a close-up video of me slowly giving him Deepthroat head – and my sister wants to view it to learn a few pointers … remember, our faces wouldn't even be shown, would that be considered unchristianlike?
…. Hope not because we did that 3 years ago …
I think there is a strong distinction between porn, and erotica. Number 1 difference being monogamous marriage and just sex.
Seeing a married couple enjoy the fruits of their marriage is a far cry from porn, whether it be instructional (in your circumstance) or erotic. No shame in married sex at all.
Patty,
Well I guess it depends on who sees it.
Seeing as porn is deemed to be so, whether it be in written form audio form or video form.
(And technically yes, the stories we read on here could be considered porn. And when one considers how many of us are actually moved to masturbate while reading them indicates how our words can have a profound effect on others)
As I have said before M. And I have taken multiple pictures and videos of ourselves for our own purposes. For us it's not porn but it is stimulating and sexually arousing for us to see ourselves, ( and there have been times when while filming or taking photos of myself or writing about a sexual experience or fantasy that I find will arouse myself to the point of Jilling.)
The question is what it is doing to your sister and what is it doing to other people people who might see you. Then it would meet the definition I'm guessing.
The bigger question is what is it producing as far as the desires of those who are watching. Is it something that is drawing them into sinful thoughts and behaviors?
For instance if your video fell into a lot with other videos, as what porn sites actually do. And somebody who had an addiction to porn had viewed and used for their own masturbation purposes you would be enabling them to continue in their addiction. As with any sin it's what we do with something that makes it sin. The big question is whether or not that thing is supplanting our devotion and worship of our Lord and Creator.
In other words we put that before the one that really deserves our worship.
These are all just speculations on my part of course.
First and foremost as believers we have to consider whether our actions are right or wrong and what it is that they're producing in the hearts of others. Have we considered the bigger picture of the Master plan or. Are we just following the leadings of the flesh and putting those above the master plan?
Is the result something that is helping others to move forward or is it something that is causing them to stumble and fall?
just like children learn to crawl and walk and run and think and reason as they grow. No different with us as believers. But it's when we choose to think that our own drives and satisfaction are more important no matter what the damage could be around us, that it was done as our choice.
We've often heard that "money is the root of all evil." However if you go and look at what the scripture actually says it's, THE LOVE of money that's the root of all evil.
Money in itself is not evil and sexual desire and practices in their selves are not evil.
A woman can go about her business throughout her day and not realizing that she's sparking lust in another person whether it be a man or a woman who sees her and is drawn to her.
She's not necessarily going out to tempt him or her, so the problem isn't with her it's with the person who's lusting.
One of the things my husband and I have done in the past while on vacation is for me to dress the way he wants me to dress. For lack of a better term or in my slutwear. Dressing in a way that is more sexual. Skirts with slits in them that reveal types of my stockings or something that reveals my cleavage more or abroad that merely serves to support but doesn't hide my nipples from being seen.
We don't really do that anymore partly because I'm older and I just don't feel that it's age-appropriate.
But looking back on it part of the reason we did it is because he liked knowing that other people were looking at me with sexual thoughts in their minds, and truth be told so did I. It was a turn-on for us and always resulted in spectacular sex after, oftentimes finding the nearest place and I'm making it back to the hotel room.
To go one step farther would be for us to allow our photos or videos to be seen by others.
To be completely honest the real reason for doing something like that. For me to address the way I did or to post pictures or videos is really to ingratiate our own exhibitionist fantasies.
Although there was a time that we were on a new beach and did have sex in front of others and with others involved in their own sexual behaviors. And knowing for well that there was some masturbation going on while people watched us. Our real purpose was to go to a nude beach for the experience. It wasn't until finding a spot and seeing what was going on around us and looking down and seeing M
With a raging hard on spurring me to wrap my fingers around it. And eventually oral sex and eventually penetration.. as was going on around us. There were a number of couples around us engaged in either manual, oral or going hard at it. And there was one couple who were joined by another male.
And I'm not going to lie, it was an exciting experience.
Now the fact that we didn't go to the beach to have sex is not an excuse at all because we did!
But looking back at it in hindsight should we as believers have participated with that?
No! it was poor judgment on our part.
We have the Old testament as our illustration of what happened over and over when the Israelites would settle among foreigners and adopt their ways. They displeased God. And many times it was because of the sexual practices that they began to adopt to themselves.
As believers this is the sense in which we are called to separate ourselves from the world. And one of the expectations of being a receiver of Grace is that we are going to begin changing our ways to join in the Master plan and while in this world, be an example and a shining light.
All of this being said, one of the things I don't like doing is feeling like I'm getting all religious and coding scripture etc. etc. rather than trying to just be real in this life which we live.
There are certain things we refrain from but unfortunately some people take it to extremes to completely throw the baby out with the bathwater and do away with those things that were intended for our enjoyment and pleasure and satisfaction.
And marriage is that ordained place where we are to find all of that. Our sexual enjoyment, experiments, freedom, communication is to be with that one with whom we are in the bonds of marriage with.
Where the problem comes in is when it becomes the bondage of marriage. One two people are not on the same plane and enjoying each other the way they should it means there's a problem! There's dissatisfaction and lack of Harmony in the bedroom. This breeds secrecy, guilt, and eventually can lead to infidelity.
So as to the nature of porn, much of what we know as porn is in the hands of people who seek to profit from it. And unfortunately the way the internet is set up and this is going to be even worse in the future with artificial intelligence. Is to develop a profile on each one of us, our likes or dislikes our communications Cummings and goings, and then to create algorithms on our psychological profiles and cater to those. In essence, to enslave us by catering to our vices.
One can look up anything, no matter how vile it is and there are some very just downright evil things on the internet. Many of them showcased in other big name social sites. All one has to do is begin searching for it and you will find it.
So in the end we have to weigh what it is that we're doing. What is our part to just join in and revel on the way to Oblivion or to use judgment and wisdom in what it is that we're doing and work within the Master plan.
L.&M. (We both had input on this)
Posted without proofreading. 😔
My apologies if some things aren't making sense in my last comment.
Lady L. 💋
[From MH: If you forget to proofread before submitting the first time, you can always submit a fixed version later, and we'll replace it! Just try to reply to the same comment thread if you can, so that it appears in the same place as the old comment. It would also help if you make a brief note at the top indicating that the new one has been proofread, so that we don't delete the new almost-identical
comment, thinking it's an accidental duplicate submission.]
As I read all the comments to my original post, I'm only more convinced that viewing erotica together and enjoying sexual experimentation with my spouse (I've heard some pretty wild tales on here, love it) is in many cases just a matter of degree and good judgment — as are many things.
After years of infrequent and routine sex, deciding to seek a deeper connection and pursuit of pleasure with my spouse is a healthy thing. Repressing long held desires and fantasies from my spouse is not.
My wife and I have a strong emotional relationship built on mutual trust and respect. She enjoys sex and I make it my priority to pleasure her. But it's a two-way street and if one spouse is feeling left-behind in terms of priorities, it's only going to get worse. I've learned that my fear of rejection is misplaced and that the best path forward is taking the initiative to be honest.
Perfect ❤️
I was pretty naive about erotica before my husband exposed me. I found out how it can enhance sex life with him. But also how poorly done most of it can be. Pay no attention to most people that attack it. Most of them are fake and just deny it publicly but likely use it. Or they are hypocritical about being exceptionally pious only to be caught in a cheap motel.