Struggling – High and Low Drives
Hello all! I have been a reader of MH for a couple of years now, but this is the first time I decided to post.
My wife and I have been married six years now, and my desire for her could hardly be stronger! Yet it is not reciprocated, and I feel unwanted. Worse, we have had numerous conversations trying to understand each other and work things out (concerning sexual intimacy, neither of us has any intention towards divorce even if there was ever a case of infidelity, so this is just more of a speed bump in an otherwise satisfying marriage).
She is an excellent mother to our 3 children (4 and under), presently works full time while I am home taking care of the kids, and is a wonderful Godly wife. She has borne with me in struggles concerning pornography over the years and is my best friend.
She is not, however, concerned enough by our lack of intimacy to have taken action towards fixing it. We have mutually agreed on solutions in the past, most recently scheduling sex to every Saturday evening. Yet even this has been pushed to the wayside, and I feel selfish if I push to maintain this minimum.
In year 1, we could have sex 3 or 4 times a day, no problem. Obviously, kids shift things, but after a midwife performed a membrane sweep while my wife was in labor against her will, she had a dramatic shift away from pleasure with intercourse. This lasted for about 8 months after our first was born, and she did not know how to communicate the trauma she felt, so I had no understanding beyond child = no desire whatsoever.
With our most recent child, she told me she was the horniest she had ever been when pregnant. That sounds good, right? Until that manifested into…. one time? One time in the entire course leading up to his birth.
That was 8 months ago… and even though we have had sex only 5 or six times since then, that is almost twice as many times as the year prior. We have averaged (after year 1) maybe once every two months? At best.
Now when we have sex, I would love to spend time going down on her, teasing, finger play, and all manner of excitement focused on her. She wants to get it in and get it out and clean up asap. No foreplay, just lube and “let’s try to make it quick”. Our wedding night was a voracious 2.5 hours long, where we quit because we were tired. I have stories I may yet write on here that are as saucy as they come… but none from the last 4-5 years of marriage. Certainly nothing in the last three. (Okay there was one, but it was isolated from any other activity with about three months of desert on either side of it.)
I love my wife! I want my wife (badly) all the time! I am diligent to be gentle and involved in non-sexual touch that shows her she is loved. We still laugh and can have fun, just not sexual intimacy. Or making out. Cuddling is about as far as it goes, and any innuendo or other touching just gets ignored, causes irritation, or outright pisses her off.
Has anyone else on here experienced anything similar? We have talked, and she recognizes that she would like her sex drive to be more than it is, but if that desire is only for my benefit and not her own, then I hardly want to bother.
Has anyone on here had experience with shifting out of neutral?
Thanks and Best Regards
Overdrive
Search the web for a post on the Uncovering Intimacy site called "Responsive Desire is a Blessing". Read it. It’s rather enlightening on the matter, and my wife agrees.
Thank you for the recommendation, I will look it up and read it.
Overdrive I’m so sorry you feel so rejected in this way. If your wife wants to improve her sex drive she needs to go to the Doctor and have her hormones and Thyroid checked that can make a huge difference in her level of desire. Also the more often you have sex the more you desire it because it increases the blood flow in that region and brings it back to life. Does she orgasm when you have sex since she doesn’t allow much foreplay Indoubr she is having an orgasm. She probably isn’t open to this but her learning to masturbate and find out what is pleasurable for her can help. Have you been to marriage or sex counseling ? You said you had struggled with porn does that play a role in her lack of interest does she feel betrayed by the porn or is that still an issue? Having a time to schedule sex doesn’t have to be a bad thing. I know we say it isn’t spontaneous but it can be. When you schedule time for a date and prepare for the evening spend time holding each other talking and flirting Allow time for the sexual tension to grow. Allow her time to de stress to switch from mommy mode to wife and lover mode. You need to talk with her tell her how it makes you feel that she doesn’t want you in this way and how you want to make her happy as well. When intimacy isn’t good other things start to become issues because intimacy is a connection and the glue that draws you close to each other like. I thing else can. Pray for your wife and pray for your marriage God is able to restore the intimacy you long for. I will be praying for you both. Hope this helps.
Thank you you for your prayers and advice.
Sadly (only in this instance!) My wife is and always has been extremely multi-orgasmic. In the moment she quite enjoys sex, and even in a quickie usually climaxes at least twice. When we were active before children she would tell me that she "stopped counting around 20." In this instance this means she achieves orgasm easily and is usually more inclined to call it good after that and head to bed.
We have talked a lot over the last year about steps to restore, and have worked heavily against temptations with great effect. Web blockers of various sort that actually work and create accountability. She has expressed how this was a cause of division in the past where we entered a negative cycle. I felt unwanted and turned to sin (porn), she felt in love and that I was more interested in the porn than her. It was a very negative feedback loop, and even now having taken many steps both physically and in our hearts, we still have disparity.
We have discussed the matter plainly, and my wife sees this time with young kids as being "in a grind" as I may put it. That it is a tough push but we will be whole on the other side.
Usually I say this in reference to an economic or financial push, i.e. when I was working 65 hours and saw less of her and the kids a few years back.
Besides the trauma at childbirth your had, has she experienced any other kind of trauma in her life—in particular, her teen or pre-teen years?? I know that people aren't too ready to begin seeing a counselor/therapist regarding marriage and sex issues until it is way late. It took my wife and me 25 years before we seriously sought out professional help. Even if you can go for just one visit, the right counselor should be able to enlighten you as to why there are issues present. And I don't mean go see a pastor; they simply aren't trained for the more serious stuff. A good counselor will explain how the brain functions and reacts to traumatic experiences. If those experiences aren't dealt with, the effects of the trauma will continue to rear their ugly heads throughout a person life.
Let me put it this way. I don't believe you have a difference of drive, at least not enough to warrant what's happening. The previous sex in your marriage is indication that your wife has drive. Her lack of desire is from something else, and it needs to be addressed. It may be because of what happened in the first birth and she either is afraid or angry to have sex. Why? Because the act of sex is connected with conception, conception means pregnancy, and pregnancy means childbirth, and childbirth means the possibility of trauma. Even if you never intend on having any more children, the effect may be the same. It's the way the brain is wired, and she might not even be aware of it. It simply manifests as a lack of interest in sex.
That is just one example (because you mentioned it), but there could be a myriad of reasons psychologically why your wife doesn't want to have and enjoy sex. But yes, check out the physical too. Hormones and thyroid are key to drive. But I would certainly check in with a qualified counselor too.
A counselor would help indeed I think.
As far as precious trauma, there were stress issues relative to her family structure growing up. She worked through that quite extensively with a psychologist though, as it had been manifesting into physical pain for a few years at the time we met. She has since eradicated that pain connection in all but the most stressful periods of time.
The psychological factor relative to the first birth could still be a strongly rooted factor. Though ironically, she is a birth doula, has had two completely natural births, and the last was nearly 10 lbs. She describes the experiences as tremendously empowering and as the coolest things she has ever done in her life. She REALLY enjoys the entire cycle of birth and the process of everything. She is also considering becoming a midwife in a few years.
Yet with that said.. there has to be more to the lack of interest indeed. I think I will broach the subject of counseling for this purpose with her and see when we could schedule something. Agreed a pastor is less qualified, though I may ask ours for recommendations. Thank you.
My wife & I had simular issues with sex drive. We have been married 33 yrs, last year we joined a Freedom small group bilble study at church. The 10 week study culminates with whats called the Freedom weekend. The study helps you remove everything that separates you from a closer walk in Christ. My wife had some sexual issues from her teen years (before we ever met)that we had talked about, I forgave her, the problem was she hadn't forgiven herself!! Freedom broke all those chains from her with help from the Holy Spirit!!! The Freedom study is through churches across the country.
[ From MH: Here's a link for more information about Freedom. https://www.churchoftheking.com/freedom ]
We actually have been talking about a similar subject. We are involved with a married's class at our church and we were discussing the nakedness of Adam and Eve with each other and God pre-fall being physical, emotional, and spiritual. The ideal state then for marriage in the act of restoring that communion with one another and God is to pursue that same nakedness of mind, body, and spirit.
I appreciate the reccommendation and will check out the series. Perhaps we can use the curriculum in our class as well!
It might be helpful to know more specifically what excuses she uses to avoid sex. That could give some insight into her thought process and help identify what/where the problem is.
Trauma from violation during childbirth (which boils my blood, by the way) could be a big part of it, and may run deeper than either of you realize. I would consider some kind of counseling/therapy to determine if that's part of the issue, and if it is, to help bring healing.
I would also recommend the podcast Sex Chat for Christian Wives, for you and/or her. I've been listening to it for a female perspective on sexual issues to better prepare for loving my future wife well. The ladies there talk a lot about low-drive and low-interest issues, so the podcast (and their individual blogs and other resources) may be of use to both you and your wife. In fact, perhaps providentially, just a couple of days ago I listened to their episode on Christian sex therapy, which may be something for you guys to look into, even though certified providers can be tricky to find.
Getting hormone levels checked is a good idea too, as recommended by SouthernHeat above and by many others in the past.
Busyness and stress could be contributing factors, since she's working full time plus helping take care of 3 very young children. If kids are part of the issue, she may benefit from realizing that the marriage should come first! There is a greater responsibility to your spouse than to your children, but at the same time, putting effort into the marriage also helps the children by giving them better parents!
Since she doesn't seem concerned enough to take action, maybe this is obvious, but try to find new ways to gently help her realize that it's a big deal for you and you really want to work on it together. A marriage is a team, and even if only one of you truly recognizes a problem, the other should still be on board and put effort into solving it. Besides, you said she's acknowledged she wants her sex drive to be higher, so hopefully she's already thinking about it and just needs the right stimulus to bring her to action.
You said you've had multiple discussions with her about this, but I would take a step back and try a different approach. If you haven't already, consider this idea. Set aside some time in a relaxed environment, make sure she knows you're not going to pressure her into sex, and stick to that commitment so she trusts you and maybe brings her reactionary defenses down some. Then instead of addressing the whole problem, start with small things, like asking why she thinks she reacts the way she does to your advances. That might help her begin to analyze and deconstruct feelings and beliefs she might not have realized were getting in the way.
It sounds like you have an excellent and thriving relationship except for this one area, and in that regard, I'm so happy for you! If other aspects of your relationship are great, I believe that should make it easier to address these sexual issues than it otherwise would be. I'm praying that God would work to make this area of your marriage thrive too!
Overdrive, what you are going through is so very difficult. There is a lot of good advice in the comments above and I am going to make my comment very short. I would encourage you to do some research on the topic of Intimacy Anorexia. This is not an issue that is very well know but it is becoming more and more common.
My wife and I have been married for 37 years and we understand this issue very well. Not only did we get help but we have gotten some training in this field because we see the need. You can't do this alone and I would greatly encourage you to find someone that is trained in this field.
I do not feel comfortable giving names and links in my comment, but if you do some studying, I trust you will learn a lot.
Overdrive-
I feel for you. I’m in the same position having been married for 11 years. Unfortunately I’ve battled the resentment you feel and I’m not sure what the solution is. I’m in a period where I pray that God takes away my desire sexually. I try not to see my wife naked or leave the room when she’s changing because it’s so frustrating. I’m incredibly attracted to my wife and I love her-I just don’t understand how some people are wired to not enjoy or want sex. My wife is one of them and counseling sessions have revealed she doesn’t think about or want it all. Nothing to do with her medically or anything in her past, she’s just not interested.
For me, it’s not about how much. I just want to feel loved by my life partner. My love language is touch and hers is acts of service. She has told me I need to be more like her and not need intimacy. It’s hurtful and I have given up on that piece of our marriage. I know God can fix anything but for whatever, this one he’s choosing not to address.
Yet, lonely guy. He hasn't addressed it with her yet.
I am curious how these wives self-evaluate in light of 1 Corinthians 7 and Ephesians 5. Do you gentlemen study the Bible with your wives? Do you discuss spiritual matters and does she respect your understanding in those non-sexual matters? Can you address this issue from a Biblical perspective? In what way does your relationship with your wife and your sexual desire for her represent Christ's love for and pursuit of us. In what way does her attitude toward you reflect the Church's passion for and oneness with Christ.
Praying for your marriage and those everywhere to focus on loving and respecting *each other* (not one way) for the glory of God. And that includes the sexual aspect.
LG, be careful what you pray for and how you pray about it! I don't think it's good to pray for God to take your sex drive away. Just as two wrongs don't make a right, two "bads" (you AND her having no sex drive) don't make a "good!" Instead, I would encourage you to ask him to help you steward your sex drive well, ask him to help you deal with frustration, and ask him for hope! Ask him for acceptance and contentment with the situation, but also for tenacity to continue persistently searching for a solution and to never give up! Don't be afraid to approach things from a different angle, because there may be solutions in places you never would have thought of. God is capable of tremendous healing, and even if he chooses not to heal, trust that it still works for your good (Romans 8:28).
As Westcoast recommended in the first comment here, I would encourage you (and you wife) to read that article from UncoveringIntimacy.com. "Responsive Desire is a Blessing" is good, but a better place to start might be with "Responsive vs Spontaneous Desire" and "Arousal Non-Concordance," as those give some background on the topic. I'm no expert, but assuming there's no trauma or medical issue, this might be part of what's going on. If she's "just not interested" and never "in the mood," she might have unconsciously bought into the lie that she has to already be aroused and interested to start. In reality, many women have to start and even get several minutes into the sexual experience BEFORE they become aroused and interested. If it takes her a long time to get going, she might just erroneously believe that she's never going to be "into it," so she just gives up. If it's a simple mental block like that, understanding concepts like responsive desire might help her turn that thinking around! (And clearly she needs to know and understand that God made sex not as something that's dirty, not even as just an option, but as an affirmative good for married couples. If she doesn't understand that, some good biblical resources would be in order.) I would also recommend the Sex Chat for Christian Wives podcast and each of the hostess' respective blogs, as they have good insight and resources on issues of low interest/desire. If she's willing, these are great resources you guys could go through together. If she's not willing to try to learn and grow, there are other relational problems that go even deeper, which may even be the root of these sexual issues.
For example, the fact that she says you should be more like her and not need intimacy is something that should be addressed in counseling regardless of the sexual issues. That seems indicative of an attitude that wants others to change without self being willing to change, which is not at all good for a marriage relationship, which is supposed to be mutual in every way.
I'm praying for you and your wife, my brother in Christ! Remember, Romans 8:28.
Overdrive, do you think the "role reversal" in your family has any impact on her attitude toward sex? For instance, is she overwhelmed by the responsibility of being the breadwinner and feel like sex is just one more task on her to-do list? (I hope I am understanding your description of the relationship correctly.) I find it amazing that you are willing to take the burden of the house and preschoolers while she brings home the bacon, but wonder if it has had any unintended consequences.
This is basically my story! Married 10 years, great sex in the first 5. All our problems have come since we’ve had kids. I think in my wife’s case, it’s stress and tiredness (she has a busy job) and body changes after 4 kids in 5 years. We’re down to sex about once every 1-2 months. It drives me insane! I love her body in any state, and I tell her daily. My problem is, when we do have sex it’s aaaamazing! And we’ve done most things a monogamous Christian couple can do. But that means it’s like having a Ferrari in the garage you can only drive once every couple of months. It’s sooo frustrating! I’ve tried literally everything; learning her love language, not mentioning sex at all for weeks, mentioning it daily, being more respectful, being more romantic, doing more chores, being more spiritual, getting Dating Divas programmes, the list goes on…nothing is working. I just want it to go back to what it was before. She recently got blood tests, no abnormality in hormone levels that we can see. She has no trauma that I’m aware of, and none that I suspect. And although I’ve watched porn over the years, it’s no longer an issue, haven’t watched in ages and will never again. So yes, it’s frustrating…she’s either 0% (which is most of the time) or 100%, there is no in between.
So in the very least, you can know that there is someone else out there who knows what you’re going through.
I'm going to mention one last thing. Over the years in our marriage, my wife has struggled to love me. This lack of love stems from two things: 1. the trauma in her growing up years, 2. my neglect of her and the kids. I was too self absorbed and wasn't helping her out around the house and with the kids when they were young. At year 8 of our marriage she told me she didn't love me anymore and I was confused as all get out. Through our entire marriage (even year 1) she has struggled with letting her heart desire other men. She has had one sided emotional affairs at least 3 different times, and there was a 4th that was two sided. That last one nearly destroyed us. Thankfully, by the time that last one took place I was becoming a new husband, and treating her with the love and care she deserved and needed. This helped to pull her back before it was too late.
Why am I telling all this? Because our sex life has suffered all these years. Not to the degree the various men hear have mentioned, we still have sex on a regular basis. However, especially with the last emotional affair, her ability to enjoy sex and have orgasms became less and less. She can masturbate herself to orgasm in less than 3 minutes, but if she masturbates for me, an entire hour would go by with nothing, and my touching her didn't help either.
I believe this lack of drive and sexual enjoyment with me is tied directly to us not having being connected. Her past trauma interfered with her being connected to me, and my neglect amplified it. As we are continuing to work on our connection and commitment to each other, her desire has risen and the orgasms have returned. But it has been many a years of frustration for us both. I know God is healing and restoring us and allowing us to enjoy the pleasures He created and intends for us.