Visual Erotica?

Hey, MarriageHeat!

My name is Lila, I have been a long time reader, but this is my first post. My husband and I are in our mid 20s, and we not could not have a more satisfying and mind-blowing monogamous sex life. I am very thankful to have found MarriageHeat, where monogamous couples can share everything about hot sex!

There has been semi-recent discussion and input from members including myself on the topic of erotic videos, or what can be called “visual erotica,” or “erotic visual art.”

The purpose of this article is to give other couples our perspective and overall experience with visual erotica with the aim of generating a productive and insightful discussion.

My husband and I both have watched erotic videos together in the past, and still do, but on an occasional basis. We haven’t found that watching erotica causes any issues for us, and we’ve had discussions on whether or not we feel it is harmful or dangerous as an occasional erotic experience to enjoy together.

As I said, on occasion we will watch visual-audio-erotica together. But I also will sometimes pleasure myself to erotic videos while he’s out of town. It’s a hot scenario and it turns both of us on. It’s a form of role-play for us; I’m the hot and naughty housewife that pleasures her pussy to porn while her husband is away. Very hot indeed.

There have been a couple of times when he was out of town that I sent him videos of myself having fun all alone in our bed as I watched very hot videos that I was streaming to our TV. I love being his naughty yet monogamous wife.

Our perspective is that between a married man and woman, there are no strict rules placed upon our sex life, so as long as we remain monogamous. This would include sex positions, toys, language used, fantasies, and erotica whether written or visual.

Consistent with that belief, we don’t believe it to be inherently wrong for a couple to watch visual erotica that includes different erotic activities like threesomes, multiple partners, or girl-on-girl. My husband and I have enjoyed visual erotica of such, and I certainly would not judge other couples for doing the same.

Now having given our perspective and experience, I would like to have input from other couples. Do you share the same perspective as us? Have you watched visual erotica with your spouse? Do you have different boundaries when it comes to erotica in general?

I think a crucial part of discussing this is first defining our terms, and also then personally deciding where the line is.

Here are some questions which I think are important:

Is there a meaningful difference between terms such as “porn,” and “erotic videos,” “visual erotica,” “audio-visual erotica,” or “erotic visual art?”

Is porn okay to watch with your spouse?

Is visual erotica okay to watch with your spouse?

Is it okay to watch simulated sex with full nudity, like a late-night skin flick?

Is it okay to watch threesomes, multiple partners, or girl-on-girl with your spouse?

 

I’m looking forward to your responses and hope I’ve contributed in some way!


Christians: how does your upbringing in sexual matters compare to how you raise (or plan to raise) your children?

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129 replies
  1. SecondMarge says:

    Yes we have used visual stimulus to enhance our pleasure. Almost all forms including girl on girl, threesomes, masturbation, etc. We see nothing wrong with it. Porn is any form of media that stimulates one sexually. Erotica, romance novel, MH story, skin flick, simulated sex, pin up photo, etc.
    Like wine, there is nothing wrong with its use for the vast majority of people who don’t get “drunk”. That is allow themselves to become addicted.
    After my husband introduced me to forms of erotica he thought I might enjoy, I have used them on my own.
    I believe people often say something is wrong because they don’t enjoy it themselves. Then they quickly decide they need to prevent others from enjoying something they don’t.

    I praise MH for allowing this and the fantasy threesome topic to be discussed here. Topics that until recently were not allowed.

    Anything my husband and I agreed to explore was never wrong. Using our imagination, erotica or role play that helped us enjoy sex with each other was a good thing. If you don’t like it? Avoid it for you. So regardless of topic, threesome, g on g etc. it’s a decision to be made inside your marriage, not by others because they don’t enjoy it. Or feel guilty when they do.

    • Flying Hubby says:

      I wonder if they fear it due to trust issues. Do they feel it will get away from them down a dark road they won’t be able to control either themself or spouse?

    • SecondMarge says:

      Trust is essential in a marriage. With trust you can explore almost anything. Without it your in trouble. Guilt is there because religion weaponized sex, saying sex is only ok if it can lead to a baby.

  2. Fiftyfitfidelity says:

    I applaud your openness and communication. We come from two families where that's been difficult, so we do not share the same freedoms, trapped by our own stigmas and lack of communication.

    With that being said, we've never turned something off that has gone down that path, it's just not something we would then, generally speaking, turn into sexual time with each other. Example, 50 Shades series. We watch and then that's it…maybe a little conversation about it, but not to get us excited and into bed.

  3. PacMan says:

    Kudos to you, Lila, for broaching a fascinating topic. A rope can be used for good (e.g. helping to rescue someone from a raging river) or for evil (e.g. kidnapping, murder). The rope is not inherently good or bad, it’s how it is used that creates the ethics.

    In the same way, some people jump to the conclusion that erotica (written and visual) is inherently wrong/evil — maybe how some people think the same of alcohol, hunting, or even sex toys. Some people seem to make these black & white issues, while others seem to have liberty [in light of Galatians 5:1].

    In line with 1 Cor. 6:10, I think erotica might not be profitable or edifying for some people, therefore it is immoral for them, while others might find the activity edifying for their marriage. I believe a different conclusion can be drawn by each couple (in the same way a different conclusion might be drawn about alcohol).

    For the record, I do use visual erotica personally and as a couple. It’s not something I dabbled in for the first 40 years of my life and the first 16 years of marriage, but it’s something new that has been profitable.

    Because it’s more of a gray area, and has the potential for harm, I feel like it needs to be kept under tight watch. Here are the guiding questions I use (and revisit often).

    1. Is the use of erotica drawing me closer to my spouse (or farther)?
    2. Is erotica edifying my marriage (or interfering)?
    3. Am I using erotica (written or visual) without becoming addicted?
    4. Is Erotica able to be used without creating secrets and dishonesty with my spouse?

    For me, I need to answer YES to all of these so that I know I’m being ethical and have sound judgment.

    It’s a fascinating topic with a LOT of opinions, I’m sure. I cannot say it is “good” for everyone, but for my marriage it has been a good spice to add into our relationship, and has drawn us closer. If my wife made a video of herself jilling off while watching erotica, I would be very happy to receive that, and it would be a huge turn-on!

  4. Tom Zizo says:

    Welcome LilaY69.

    I found your story quite captivating and it brought back memories of my own encounter with this exact theme. My wife and I had been married for @ 5 years and things were starting to get a bit out of order as far as the love life goes. Between two kids and work, romance seemed to be taking a back burner. I asked my wife if she would be interested in checking out things just like you mentioned to get things back on track, and she agreed.

    The porn was not for her and she said to never ever show anything like that to her again, but I did find a few site's that had some really good quality erotica content and she really enjoyed them. We would watch them in bed and that would lead to either mutual masturbation, or some really great sex again just like when we where dating.

    I would say to you to try whatever works out for the both of you and enjoy each minute of your lives together!

  5. drhotwife says:

    Men and women see things very differently. Men are visually stimulated and having a man watching pornography…even with his wife…is setting a dangerous precedence. Sending those naughty photos of you to your husband…awesome…keep it up…that is the way it should be…let you be the one that is visually turning him on. But to have another woman (pornography) doing it really is not wise. There is a reason God tells us not to lust after another person…because in the end it will cause great harm…and I am telling you as a man that if your husband is watching pornography even with you present then he is visually lusting after someone else. Maybe the sex to follow is especially hot…but it is predicated on him lusting and in the end that is gonna come back to harm. So, you asked for opinions…as a man.. I am telling you my opinion is it is not wise for the future health of your marriage…

    • SecondMarge says:

      Enjoying watching a movie where others have sex is no more a sin than watching a movie where people rob a bank, steal a car, kill someone or any other sin. It's just that we as a culture are hung up about sex and have been taught poorly by our clergy, parents and elected officials.

  6. Beachlover Guy says:

    My wife and I enjoy adult amateur erotic/porn photos and videos because they're more realistic and honest. The bodies in amateur erotica aren't perfect and sex isn't faked for the camera. We view male/female couples sex or singles masturbation because we don't feel those acts are sinful, unlike homosexuality. We've cammed on occasion with others and we've found it exciting and erotic without leading to adulterous desires or actions. Some may quibble with our definition of right and wrong, but we don't believe it to be sinful, just as we don't see reading stories on MH and then masturbating to be wrong. It would be interesting for MH to have a photo and video section for those who wish to contribute, but that's probably just a fantasy. I'll add that posing nude for the camera has been extremely liberating and fun for us, whether it's sexual or not, because we're nudists and we love going naked as much as possible.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Most porn is really bad. As in poorly made. And there are categories that do nothing for me. Those where you truly believe they are enjoying themselves are better. I agree watching others masturbating via camera is very hot.

    • WakaWaka123 says:

      THis might be a weird thing to ask. But as a single guy in his 20's who is a virgin, how would I go about finding video of couples that are realistic and honest? Especially people who are Christian? I'm just trying to get comfortable with starting to masturbate and would prefer to be able to see a real couple in a real marriage. The whole thing is an emotional rollercoster for me to figure out right now.

    • AlwaysReady says:

      I'd love to chat with you about this response but don't want to hijack a thread. (please understand it's out of curiosity and interest in learning how you came to some of your views and in NO way judgmental).

      [Note: MH won't facilitate the exchange of personal contact information.]

  7. LilaY69 says:

    Hey, guys!

    Interesting responses so far!

    I was wondering if a moderator could possibly add a poll to this thread on whether or not a person or couple agree or if they find it [use of visual erotica] to be beneficial?

    • PacMan says:

      I totally agree Art! Erotica/porn can be dangerous so it’s important we are all cautious. Some people have a current or former addiction to alcohol, and one drink can knock them off the wagon — while others can drink freely and never get drunk or never become addicted. It’s a different line for everyone… but definitely HANDLE WITH CARE!

    • SecondMarge says:

      True but we can’t live our lives rejecting anything because some tiny percentage of people have trouble with it. Denying things just makes them more wanted as we learned from prohibition.

  8. natural_gardener says:

    Lila, thanks for your honesty and thought provoking post.

    For myself, I found many of the ideas in my own imagination with no exposure to erotica or "porn." I often struggle with the thought expressed by Solomon that there is "nothing new under the sun" and one of those items you mention, in particular, has an incredibly stamina enhancing effect on me, and was something I pondered long before learning about what sexual sins were, in the context of Old Testament relationships which seemed to create situations where for some, those scenarios might happen or be considered.

    I'm not here to advocate for those things or claim they're great ideas – but just giving context. I'm pretty confident that appreciating nude beauty, solo masturbation, and depictions of marital intimacy aren't always harmful – as long as one's attitude of the heart is right. On the other material, I'm uncertain – but find it interesting in studies and in some conversations I've had that some women seem to find girl-girl as curious or arousing as men do, and it also seems that most men do, and even if something is ultimately sinful or unwise to indulge in, I do find that commonality and the "why" of it intriguing.

    More questions than answers, but I appreciate your post and MH allowing the dialogue!

    • LilaY69 says:

      I have fantasies in which I experience another woman, or even women (plural) in some of my wilder fantasies. These fantasies also drive my hubby wild, and just the thought of myself having a girl-on-girl sexcapade gets my husband extremely turned-on and his dick very hard. But of course, they're only fantasies and they will remain only that. I do just love the sexual tension it creates between us when we do utilize such hot and erotic fantasies. I'm obviously not lesbian, but I have to admit, it makes me wet seeing/watching girl-on-girl, or fantasizing about it. I think almost all straight women are, even if it's on a more subtle and small degree. There have also been many studies that have shown this to be true. Needless to say, women are very beautiful and erotic, and so other women can also appreciate and enjoy that.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Being with another woman is a very sexy thing. It turns me on and my husband loved talking about it. I do not believe it is a sin. I only find cheating on your spouse a sin as far as sexual behavior goes. Women’s bodies are very sexy and I agree that most if not all women have at least some same-sex desires.

      Thanks Lila for bringing up the topic and MH for allowing the discussion.

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      I can't speak for all women. Having once been a swinger, I can say that the *idea* of anything outside the norm can often be more stimulating than the actual practice (not that it wasn't stimulating!) And keeping these ideas in the realm of fantasy carries the least risk of harm to your relationship with your spouse. No wonder, then, that our loving God placed these extramarital relationships off limits for his children. I believe he wants our marriages to be an image of the fidelity He desires between Him and us.

    • SecondMarge says:

      I believe more marriages end because of a lack of sex or too vanilla sex than trying something wild. We all understand what we think is God’s word in our own ways, especially since he addressed almost no issues we face today literally. So we have to decide how what he did say should be applied.

      For every sexual variety there is the danger one spouse will love it and the other hates it. Whether it’s as common as oral or as complicated as some of the topics in this discussion.

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      Another possibility is that both spouses love it, but find a relationship or bond growing between one or both of them and another partner. Sex does bond us, for better or worse, and numbers aside, even "open" marriages can end when one or both spouses choose another. It's a risk to be aware of and, speaking from experience, also avoided. However, fantasy can be a great way to play with those ideas and desires without indulging outside the marriage.

    • SecondMarge says:

      They used to say women shouldn’t work outside the home because “it carried the risk” of meeting other men. They used to prohibit women from showing their ankle because “it carried the risk” of a man not being able to control his lust if he saw her skin. Becoming emotionally attracted to another person is a greater danger to marriage than sexual attraction. Most affairs are not because of sex. A weak marriage with poor communication is in danger from many sides.

  9. Loves2bthelover says:

    This is a great discussion. I actually found out that my wife used erotic videos to get off while watching one of her fantasies. It was so hot for me to learn and I feel closer to her because of it. The more I learn about her desires, and what gets her wet, the more I want to have her! We do something that I find so fun and exciting. Sometimes, we will text (sext) each other adult gifs of what we want to do to one another that night. We rarely make it to the night! I think I would like to play this but with learning about fantasies we have.
    Bottom line- arousal is not the same as lust. Lust is used in the Bible in regards to getting what isn’t yours at the expense of others. It’s a ruthless greed. Arousal is… well… getting horny:)

    • LilaY69 says:

      That's great to hear that I'm not alone.

      I'm glad to hear that you have a hot wife!

      What was/are your wife's fantasies, I'm curious? Or both of you for that matter?

      I would wholeheartedly agree that "arousal" and "lust" are two completely different things.

    • Tulsa says:

      I caught my wife watching our homemade videos on the computer one afternoon. She didn’t hear me come in, an I got to stand behind her and watch her watch.
      She didn’t have her hands on the mouse and keyboard, that’s for sure!

    • LilaY69 says:

      @Tulsa that is beautiful! I'm guessing she didn't quite get the chance to get herself off watching the video since you came home 😉

      We've made a few of our own home made 'porn' videos ourselves. A fantasy yet fulfilled of mine is filming a POV blowjob in a semi public place. Very invigorating!

    • Tulsa says:

      I remained silent and bug-eyed while she carried on, and she did get herself off before she found out I was there.
      It was really spectacular! She was totally naked, both legs up on the desk on either side of the monitor, and the vibrating monster buzzing and slurping in & out while she watched us on the screen!
      After that, I got her off….more than once! Me too! It was a great afternoon I'll tell ya!

      We have made some vids camping several times, a few 'improved' campgrounds, so semi-public you could call it, I suppose. No other campers around, although, we have been caught a couple times while camping. We have taken more pictures outside than videos. We are an outdoor couple!

    • LilaY69 says:

      @Tulsa

      Mmmhhmm! Love it!

      Now that you've given some descriptive visual aid of how she was jilling, it's even sexier and I'm quite turned on. It's such a big turn on to see and know of other God-lovin' smokin' hot wives. I love MarriageHeat.

      There have been a multitude of times when my husband has asked to watch me get myself off nicely to some hot and good quality AVE.

      I can admit, I do quite enjoy jilling myself off to hot erotic videos while he's out of the house or at work. I revel in being such a hot wife while I rub my wet pussy with legs spread, moaning as I get to be a witness to the very hot and erotic sex on screen. Then he gets home, and I'm so ready for him.

      You have such a hot wife! Tell her I said to keep it up!

    • Tulsa says:

      We have lots of fun Lila!
      Our vids and pics, are homemade stuff.
      Now & then, we will simply get naked, and watch ourselves on the computer, for as long as we can take it anyway. Always turns out to be fun!
      Still though, there is something we both find better, Is when one of us catches the other pleasing themselves, and especially, when the watcher goes unnoticed, and can see the whole show!

  10. hornyGG says:

    Great post LilaY69! The only "porn" my husband Ben and I watch are the two we made of our selves and a couple of the Better Sex series videos. I do enjoy erotic romance novels which can get pretty sexually explicit at times. I guess technically you could label those as "porn".
    As far as girl on girl erotica, it just never has appealed to me. Some of the novels I have read have touched on it lightly, but not in any great detail. While I do enjoy the taste of my own pussy juices and often wish I could eat myself out, the fantasy of eating out another female just doesn't excite me.
    After reading this I asked Ben if he ever fantasized about seeing me with another woman. He admitted that on occasion he has, but it is not a fantasy he uses very often.
    I think visual erotica is ok if a couple is strong in their relationship and it is used to enhance their sex life. You do have to be careful however as with anything, too much can and often does have its consequences.
    God bless and stay horny sweetheart!

    GG

  11. Hot4Wife says:

    This is a really interesting topic and thanks for having the boldness to post it. I believe that on some level it really comes down to the heart. That is where Jesus took it anyways when He said if you lust after a woman in your heart then you have committed adultery with her. Many people in the church consider looking at porn/erotica in any form as lust. I have heard people go as far as to saying that if someone has a poster of a woman in a bathing suit on their wall they are cheating on their wife. I don’t believe this to be true. I believe you can look at porn or erotica and not lust after that person. Porn can actually be used by a couple to enhance their erotic experience. Many people are visual and porn can give them a jump in the biological response cycle that makes their lovemaking hot. Biological response is quite different then lust. I realize that many people who do watch porn are lusting after the people on the screen and will compare their partner to them and that is lust. The only thing I would caution in Threesome watching and girl/girl is that we know this is against Gods design for marriage and so we should be more careful that we don’t start longing for something that we clearly know is wrong.

  12. Penny4URthoughts says:

    I’m new and this is my first comment and I’m not sure if I dare to be completely open. Needless to say my husband enjoys watching and reading about sex. It is very enlightening to read the various opinions. I hope to contribute more in the future.

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      Welcome, Penny! Thanks for chiming in. It is hard to put yourself out there and be vulnerable, even in this anonymous way. Go at your own pace and only as far as you are comfortable. {{Hugs}}

  13. HigherQuest says:

    Great questions Lila! My wife and I completely agree…

    Here are three Scriptures that have informed our thinking on this issue:

    Matthew 5:27  “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28  But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 

    Which I believe is elaborated on by Paul:

    Romans 7:7  What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I would not have known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You are not to covet. 

    Both of these appear to me to be predicated upon:

    Exodus 20:17  “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.” 

    To imagine that Jesus is saying that being sexually stimulated by viewing a naked image or video is equal to covetous lust seems to fail the obvious intent of these passages. First, He created our sexual capacities, so to imagine He disapproves of us being visually stimulated makes little sense to me. Second, He placed the Song of Solomon in His Word, and it clearly promotes the value of visual/mental sexual stimulation. And third, what God forbids in Exodus has to mean something more serious than looking over my neighbors fence and appreciating his new Ferrari. Covetous lust, which Jesus is surely addressing, must of necessity include "intent" to follow through with what one is stimulated by. In other words, if I look over my neighbor's fence, appreciate his Ferrari…no harm, but if I begin to hatch a plan to take it for a spin, knowing full well he would not want me to do so, is the beginning of a very serious string of sinful thoughts that I MUST shut down before they get the better of me and turn into sinful actions. Fornication and Adultery are clear lines in the sand. Erotic images…not so.

    So, because God made men and women sexually stimulating and yet put clear boundaries in place in His Word, as long as we honor those boundaries and don't offend our spouses in what we appreciate, it seems highly unlikely He would disapprove.

    Therefore, based on these biblical connections my wife and I enjoy a small and measured amount of erotic media, but we keep it to ourselves, both from a commitment to monogamy but also because we would not want our liberties to cause anyone to violate their conscience by our freedom. We know that for some people one glass of wine is all it takes to trigger alcohol addictions. The same can be true of visual sexual stimuli. Each person must know their own safe boundaries and be faithful to those before the Lord.

    We have studied this topic extensively from Genesis to Revelation, from the Hebrew to the Greek to the Aramaic, using the best linguistic and hermeneutical principles obtained from the Conservative Evangelical Bible College and Seminary we studied under, and are as confident as we can be of the appropriateness of our liberties, but we also respect the conclusions of others who have used all the same linguistic tools and come to different conclusions. At the end of the day what matters most is…can we look up to Jesus, look Him directly in the face, worship and adore Him, love His Word, and be confident before Him that He approves of our liberties, or are we doubtful?

    I close these thoughts with Romans 14:

    Romans 14:1  As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2  One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3  Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4  Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5  One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6  The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7  For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8  For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 

    Romans 14:10  Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11  for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” 12  So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13  Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14  I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 

    Romans 14:22  The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23  But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

    Christians of all generations have struggled over questionable issues…it's the same today with erotic media. Let each one honor the Lord in their convictions and keep them before Him continually.

  14. Victor0884 says:

    Thank you to all of you for the very thought provoking and honest comments. I see that the girl on girl fantasies are fairly common and I personally don’t think they are a sin. Honestly I agree that same sex attraction is existent to some degree. Now I have learned that my wife finds man on man fantasies a huge turn on, she gets very excited and turned on discussing it. She was embarrassed at first and was hesitant. I am curious if other wive’s find this a turn on just as a fantasy?

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      I have to ask why you (and Marge) don't think girl-on-girl is a sin? Aren't both forms of homosexuality addressed in the same passage: Romans 1:26-27? Or do you see a loophole in the "exchanged" or "abandoned" natural sexual relations? I could see arguing that in Old Testament times or in places where today a man can have more than one wife, there must have been occasions where multiple-partner sex took place (given that it is such a prevalent fantasy today and Solomon tells us that there is nothing new under the sun. 🙂 ) But, since I don't live in that time or those places, the theory doesn't impact my practical application of the scripture. It seems clear to me that during my swinging days I was absolutely walking in disobedience—despite the fact that my husband both approved and encouraged (and participated in) those activities. The fact that I wasn't "cheating" didn't make it okay for me or him to have another person's spouse nor a single person, since he wasn't married to her.

      I want to be clear that I am not "challenging" you; I sincerely want to hear the scriptural basis of your opinions on this matter.

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      I may be misreading you. You may be saying that you don't think that type of *fantasy* is a sin. And I will admit that I share your wife's turn on, though I try to avoid it in AVE (in fact, I would define that as porn) because of somebody having to actually *do* it for me to see it.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Yes threesomes with two men can be sexy too. I mentioned a man sucking on a penis-shaped toy in another comment. A man receiving anal by a strap on.

      When we simulate threesomes with the use of toys and our imagination it has become a big turn on for me, as Lila had mentioned. But seeing just two men together doesn’t do it for me.

      One thing is clear, we are all different. Different in what we enjoy. Different in what we fantasize. Different in how we interpret the words in the Bible. Seems clear to me it says we shouldn’t judge the choices others make because they don’t agree with the ones we make. Those decisions also change during the course of a lifetime. But when it comes to sex, many people seem to feel "if I don’t do that no one else should either."

      The words in the scriptures need to be taken in context. Considered in their need and meaning during those times. That is one reason biblical scholars have debated these issues for hundreds of years.

    • Penny4URthoughts says:

      CrazyHappyLoved, my husband was a swinger in his second marriage. Had dozens of threesomes, even live-in ones. I read your ex-swinger story with interest. I would love to know more. My husband loved the sex. Nothing bad ever resulted. So I worry eventually he may want to go back to that lifestyle. He says he loves the intimacy we have in our monogamous marriage. I fantasized about doing it with him but am afraid we would get lost in the lifestyle. He does describe some of the things that happened and I get very excited. Our sex after that is fantastic. Do you ever think back about how great the sex was and want to do it just one more time? I was no angel. I was married before too. And not celibate between marriages. Even some “experimenting” when single. But I don’t think he could swing again or have a threesome without returning to the lifestyle. Would enjoy reading more about your current temptations.

    • AlwaysReady says:

      Penny4URThoughts.. interesting.. we are in a similar boat. Neither my wife nor I have ever been swingers but have friends who are (who know we are Christians and monogamous etc). BUT I can't lie that the thoughts of what they do, and invite us to do aren't intriguing.

  15. lovewithpleasure says:

    Wow!! Shaking my head…

    So all of you support watching and/or fantasizing about homosexuality?

    As a man, seeing women together, or even simply the idea is arousing. But I know it's very wrong. However, I'm quite frankly, stunned to see other women also having the same arousal response. Btw, I thought the people here were Godly, but this doesn't seem Godly to me.

    I'm also stunned to see "Christian" couples here practicing or in support of watching porn.

    ……

    To my mind, you couldn't get anymore sinful than this. I'm certainly not a prude, but this is disturbing to me.

    I'm also disturbed by the advocation of fantasizing… Not "fantasy" itself, but it appears that it's being used as an excuse to occupy your mind with very sinful and wrong activities that you have a desire for.

    It seems obvious to me that, if a person had the Holy Spirit, they would certainly not have such sinful desires and thoughts.

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      That's not exactly what I'm reading here, lovewithpleasure. I see several people saying that audio-visual erotica of a solo or monogamous nature doesn't cause *them* to desire that person. A few others (not all) say that watching other people portray un-godly sexual encounters (same-sex, multiple partners, etc.) arouses them but does not cause them to desire to *do* those things themselves. I don't hear anyone "advocating" for *you* to do anything that you believe is wrong—quite the contrary.

      And to say that having the Holy Spirit would keep a person from having any particular *thoughts* is not true to what I read in Scripture: "For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don't ***do*** what you want." (Galatians 5:17, emphasis mine.)

      Why should I be ashamed to admit that I have thoughts and urges that occur that aren't godly? The Bible *tells* us that it is that way; the Spirit and the flesh are opposed to one another, but if we *walk* in the Spirit, we won't *carry out* the desires of the flesh. (v. 16, again my emphasis.) Our obedience is to DO His will. Why can't we talk about those urges and how we *keep* from being disobedient to Him despite them? Why can't we know each other and be known without fear of rejection and condemnation from our "Christian" brothers and sisters? I think it's the very thing that drives us to anonymous sites like this for discussion rather than opening up to one another in a small group or Bible study.

    • HigherQuest says:

      To "lovewithpleasure" I believe I know right where you are coming from. I too held all the concerns you express up until a few years ago when I began to do some of the most serious study of sexual issues in all my years of studying and teaching the Word.

      As far as enjoying seeing two men having sex together or two women enjoying each other, it isn't something I or my wife would be interested in doing but sex is sex and it is generally stimulating, and since being stimulated by something isn't considered sinful in the bible we are stimulated by it. Where it appears to portray fornication we absolutely reject that as an acceptable behavior but it doesn't change how stimulating it is to watch two people fornicating together…once again sex is just plain sexy. I don't have to agree with a particular behavior to register sexual stimulation from it.

      As I've mentioned in other of my posts here, my wife and I have thoroughly studied the Word on what God approves, disapproves, and says nothing about as relates to sexuality, and we see nothing in Scripture that forbids being sexually stimulated by visual acts of sex in settings of fantasy, which is what is found on the Internet. We do not visit chat rooms and dialogue with those performing because we do not in any way want to begin crossing over into actual biblical lust.

      As for "Fantasy" well…I can only say that the greatest work of sexual fantasy known to man is the Song of Solomon…that is what it is all about. This website loves, writes about, and enjoys sexual fantasies because God has made us mentally visual human beings, and most of us believe that it is one thing to be mentally stimulated and a very different thing to actually engage sexually with someone other than our spouse.

      Having said that, I believe that Polyamory and Polygamy have their rightful place and do not represent anything ungodly, as long as it represents two or more people in covenant marriage relationships with each other. My wife and I are committed to monogamy because God has not led us towards polyamory or polygamy, but we are open to His leading towards this if it serves His purposes for our lives. David, who was the type of Christ, of whom Christ is born in the same human lineage, was a Polygamist and God clearly gave Him permission for such and never asked him to give it up. It's not for very many people, probably because it represents a very complex set of relationship dynamics…waaaay beyond my emotional equipment, but for those who believe God has approved it for them I have no problem with it. They have my prayers… 🙂

      So, while I love you in Christ and respect your current journey and convictions, I also respect and support other positions than those you currently hold. Your journey is far from over…you, like me, may one day find yourself seeing things very differently than you do now. My encouragement is to keep on studying…you may be surprised with what you discover…

  16. TPC says:

    Great topic and thankful for MH to provide a forum for discussion. As I'm reading this post I'm looking back over 1Cor 7 (Marriage) and 1 Cor 8 (Conscience). Interesting in 1Cor7:2 that Paul leads with "But since there is so much immorality," before saying this is why husbands and wives should surrender their bodies to their partners in mutual sexual ministry. Then balance that with Paul writing in Chapter 8 that he feels free to eat meat sacrificed to an idol but would never eat meat in a situation that would cause a fellow believer to stumble. My point is that the principles of faithfulness, humble service and sacrifical and generous love have to be the foundation for this discussion and I think they are in this post. In our marriage I feel more freedom to use erotica to enhance our fun and my wife enjoys some but I have to demonstrate to her that I am her protector in the bedroom and that she is more important than my desires and fantasies. In a similar fashion she does a good job of "approving of my sexuality" and willing to play with me in a generous fashion. Now in the process their have been bumps and hurt feelings and great makeup sex but all of it the Lord is using it to refine us in His image so that we can reflect His glory to each other, to our kids and to others.

    For us a sexy movie/tv scene are cool. She likes it when I write an erotic story and throw in a couple of pictures or gifs, especially when she is in a warm tub and I'm her bartender.

    • HigherQuest says:

      Thanks for sharing TPC. It made me think it might be helpful to say a few things here about the TV most Christians watch.

      I read of so many Christians (not yourself) of how horrible erotic media is (I.e. porn, AVE, etc) yet those very same Christians watch TV. They seem very quick to say things like "How can you watch erotic media and not violate Paul's words in Romans 1:32  "Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.""? To this I pose the following questions:

      1. How can those Christians watch TV actors passionately and sexually kiss those who are not their wives, which if I did such a thing would represent at the very least the beginning of adultery if not outright adultery?

      2. How can Christians watch TV actors climb into bed naked with other actors, even if we see nothing more than a bare butt, and simulate intercourse and other sexual acts, which if I did such a thing would represent full on adultery?

      I confess that I can't imagine my wife being an actress and let some handsome guy french kiss her, and I certainly can't imagine allowing some actor to undress and simulate screwing her under the covers, just so she can make income from acting, but then I'm not married to an actress and perhaps, after much prayer, openness with one's spouse, and agreements, it could work for me, but it is really a stretch. But…to conclude that I am approving adultery and fornication just because I'm entertained by a TV program in which such acts take place is not accurate at all. I 100% stand in opposition to french kissing someone other than one's spouse, and certainly not getting undressed and appear to have sex with them, and I don't approve any form of adultery or fornication in any format, but that doesn't mean their acts of sex are not hot, a huge turn on, and encourage my wife and I towards hot sex with each other, because it does, and we enjoy being turned on by it.

      Would I rather watch TV or movies or porn that only included married actors? Absolutely, but their choices are theirs, not mine, and my being stimulated by their choices has no bearing on my approval of their actions. I'm stimulated by seeing the most godly people on the planet engaged in hot sex and also by the most ungodly people doing it. Why? Because God made human beings to be turned on by the thoughts of sex, the sounds of sex, the writings of sex, and the actions of sex. That's just a biological and theological fact. I for one am thrilled that He did so. It makes me love and appreciate Him all the more. My views of sex are informed by His obvious design. He has to be One Hot God as far as I can tell.

      I hope some of this makes sense, but if not…well, at least it makes sense to me…

  17. Victor0884 says:

    Thank you so much for your honesty and I knew it would be controversial. There is a difference to me in fantasy and actually partaking in it. I was referring to using it as a fantasy between a husband and wife. We have to decide if it is allowable in our marriage at the end of the day. Grey area to us when it comes to scripture. Girl on girl is a big fantasy for most men if they are honest and I was just trying to see if man on man was a fantasy for women. Fantasy is all, used to stimulate us is what I was referring to. There have been stories on MH about men taking anal with a strap on as one mentioned earlier, so I thought it might be more prevalent than what is talked about among wives. Great responses and thank you for your comments ladies.

    • Penny4URthoughts says:

      To reply to your question, I do get turned on watching some porn that includes threesomes where everyone pleasures everyone else. Whether it’s two men or two women. Please don’t think I am a pervert. I just wanted to be honest. And no, I have no doubt that it isn’t a sin to watch.

    • LilaY69 says:

      My husband and I have both enjoyed watching threesomes. Yes, it's hot, but we would never do it in reality because we obey Him. But yes, I have enjoyed watching two men satisfy a woman, or watching the two women pleasure each other while they're with a man.

      Honestly, I would rather fantasize about having a threesome rather than watching one. I think that's the case for all of my erotic fantasies. I believe fantasizing feels safer, and more gratifying to my marriage. Enjoying visual erotic with or without my husband is a less occasional pleasure and I think it should be safely used in moderation for it's full benefit.

      We're all humans here, babe! God made you and I as sexual beings! No, we do not think you're a pervert!

      Please don't feel embarrassed or hesitate to discuss with us on these matters. As you see, we are… We would love to hear more from you, Penny! 😘💋♥️

  18. TPC says:

    One more thing that I thought of … David's adulterous and murderous relationship with Bathseba and Uriah in 2 Samuel 11. First David was by himself and not on the battlefield. Second his relationship with Bathseba started with just some watching. My point for bring this up is that it serves as a cautionary tale that is good to balance with the freedom we have in Christ. It is not either-or it is both-and. We have lots of sexual freedom with our spouses and we need to remember that we have a sinful nature that can be tempted. No conclusion other than to be humble and dependent on the Lord as we enjoy the fun of the marriage bed.

  19. RenewedCouple says:

    One older wise Christian and "philosopher" told my wife and me years ago that fantasy is a form of mental entertainment, and it functions to arouse us to enjoy the subject matter if even it does not reflect our specific ethics (what we practice).

    A good example is reading or watching movies that include murder and crime. The visual or written entertainment enters into our fantasy world and helps us function in our lives. For the evil one, it helps them learn how to be a criminal, for a good person, it helps them learn how to survive and not get killed.

    I believe that erotic stories and visual erotica can be the opposite of what you believe and practice, but still can arouse your monogamous sexuality. I know many Christian seniors who have moderately enjoyed erotic stories, whether visual or written, and their marriage was blessed. The key word here is moderately.

    Many Christians who have lived a swinging or promiscuous life still have nostalgic erotic thoughts that fuel their arousal, but would never go back to that lifestyle. Many people who experience abuse may have a fantasy related to that time of the abuse while still seeing it for what it was—abuse.

    The Song of Songs seems to have passages that lend themselves to be erotic but are wrong. Those passages may have been considered "erotic" reading in the day, but not to be practiced between a monogamous couple.

    Some say there was a gang rape where, in her abuse, she was "bruised" by the watchmen of the night. At the end of the experience, she is still faint with love (horny as ever).

    Song 5:5 I arose to open for my lover,
    and my hands dripped with myrrh,
    my fingers with flowing myrrh,
    on the handles of the lock. (was she masturbating?)

    Song 5:6 I opened for my lover,
    but my lover had left; he was gone.
    My heart sank at his departure.

    I looked for him but did not find him.
    I called him but he did not answer.

    Song 5:7 The watchmen found me
    as they made their rounds in the city.

    They beat me, they bruised me;
    they took away my cloak,
    those watchmen of the walls!
    Song 5:8 O daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you—
    if you find my lover,
    what will you tell him?
    Tell him I am faint with love.

    Later, Solomon compares his bride to others and calls his bride unique.

    Song 6:8 Sixty queens there may be,
    and eighty concubines,
    and virgins beyond number;
    9 but my dove, my perfect one, is unique,
    the only daughter of her mother,
    the favorite of the one who bore her.

    The maidens saw her and called her blessed;
    the queens and concubines praised her.

    The fact is that Christians and monogamous Christians have many fantasies that they will not practice. And all fantasy if for the marriage alone.

    A Christian business person may fantasize about profits but will not use dishonest gain even if he/she has fantasized about ways that he/she would not practice. Many Christian business leaders love movies like "Wall Street" but would not be that person.

    The same happens in other areas as well.
    Sometimes, people without limits help us be more creative and daring in our monogamous garden.

    As Christians, we adopt "hot monogamy," but we fantasize. In fact, the fantasy often keeps our world where we want it between husband and wife.

    It might be fun for those who used to be swingers at Marriage Heat to tell their stories even in an erotic way. But also including the ways that lifestyle was found to be lacking despite the "lusty and hot" sex.

    I would love to read those stories. The arousal that I would feel would be the entertainment that could propel my sexuality and could focus that sexuality into my marriage. To a person that goes beyond fantasy, s/he is likely going to do that anyway.

    The problem with visual erotic materials is the possible addiction factor. Many men have gone into a hidden habit that is too common instead of having their sexuality focus on their wives.

    On a positive note: Many Christian wives who watched a limited about of pornography became more daring and free in the bedroom.

    Another negative: Much pornography is filmed by abusing, really abusing women and abusing men too. Plus, the whole issue of sex outside of marriage is a difficult thing for Christians to swallow. Filming the sinning in areas of sex seems way worse than filming murder in murder mysteries.

    MarriageHeat is a great forum for this kind of discussion. The stories here are safer than losing yourselves into the world of visual erotic materials. The experiences of everyone who contributes to MH would be written from a "hot Monogamy" perspective. I would love to read a whole novel about the journey of a swinger to monogamy, with the author sharing the heated sex of that journey and how even despite the hot sex marriage, monogamy won!

    • SecondMarge says:

      Excellent points, well stated. “Moderately” is a relative term that on this topic probably varies greatly. We know a Church Elder who with his wife have been “soft swinging” for almost 30 years with the same couple. I think maintaining a relationship with one person is difficult enough. Add in another couple and chances for difficulty go up exponentially. Most marriages fail anyway, those that involve others have to fail at even a greater rate even if it weren’t wrong. Even if you were simply sharing a home it is likely for problems to arise.

      Thanks for writing you make a strong case.

  20. IndyDad says:

    What happens in the bedroom, stays in bedroom! That's how we look at it. The funny thought occurred to me years ago how even the most pious, conservative person – let's say a minister – can do wild things in the bedroom! It's a private thing between husband and wife. So "erotic videos" can be part of that – it all comes down to how a couple feels about it. We watch videos sometimes and like to mutually pleasure each other as we watch (sometime we don't finish the video!).

    • SecondMarge says:

      I agree about the privacy of the bedroom. Also most people are far wilder than they admit. I suspect even on a sexual discussion site like MH not everything is admitted. Use of videos for self pleasure or as a couple is the majority and can help couples greatly.

  21. SecondMarge says:

    Color me shocked that the majority of MH members watch sexual material. As conservative as we are as a group, we still enjoy the added stimulus. Interesting that almost half even admit to using “porn”. That negative inflammatory word did not prevent people from admitting they enjoy it.

    Great topic Lila. Thanks for allowing it MH.

    I wonder how this knowledge might affect the rules here. Maybe another category to protect those still in the conservative camp while allowing the rest to explore additional topics. Or just have The F label cover a wider field including couples watching VCE together. Or as several have suggested a fantasy threesome.

    Hopefully both sides will respect the needs of the other.

    • IndyDad says:

      Being a guy, before marriage I watched erotic videos and used that as a stimulus to masturbate. After marriage, my wife wasn't sure about videos – she was kinda shy about it. But watching them together and touching each other as we watch, she likes that a lot.

  22. Dave CapeTown says:

    Oh wow, Lila… I'm literally stroking my cock reading your post… It has me so hard!!!

    I love the sound of your fantasies – I have a few of those myself 🙂

    My wife is currently out of town and I know she won't mind me watching some erotic videos as I continue stroking my thick, hard cock for her 🙂

    • LilaY69 says:

      Thanks! I'm so glad to see mostly positive feedback, and a lot of support!

      Does your wife have fantasies or at least ones that are similar to mine? Do you and your wife fantasize together or watch AVE/porn?

      Would love to hear more from you and your wife!

    • Dave CapeTown says:

      Oh my… So wonderful to hear from you, Lila! My wife says I have the most wonderful cock ever… She would really love to try anal, but she says I'm too thick…

      She often fantasizes about seeing me with another lady… and that gets her so wet… We have a whole HOST of fantasies that are bordering on the forbidden… but all in the name of turning one another on!

      So looking forward to sharing more fantasies with you!!

  23. Tulsa says:

    The porn stuff, is so contrived, plus it's so predictable. Acting? Sound? Awful. And it almost always has some stuff that we don't do, nor would, and is actually a turn off. Included, in that list, is girl on girl. So, we tried it a little, and didn't care for it.
    Better idea, we think, is to take and make your own pics and videos.
    For one, it's possible. 😉
    It's also REAL!
    For another, you can do stuff that you both like, or just the other really likes. For instance, in porn, how much good, man on woman oral is there? It usually lasts only a minute or two, and that's it.
    It happens to be my wife's favorite thing I do for her, so, we made some vids that are mostly all me eating and licking her pussy. Creampies included! Not much man on woman oral in porn, and no creampie oral at all. Woman on man only.
    And, if you make a video, and it doesn't turn out like planned, well all the bad luck, you have to start over and try it again. Gee…..isn't that horrible!
    Just our take.

    • SecondMarge says:

      I don’t carry the exhibitionest gene so watching myself on a recording would turn me off. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. Different turn ons. I’m not an expert but cream pies is an entire porn category with more hours of action than any cream pie lover could watch. More hours of man giving woman oral than you could watch in the remaining spare hours of a lifetime. Then again we were never more than now-and-then users. We learned some things from it.

      I do agree most porn is badly done. So are most tv shows. Most books. There is plenty of very hot stuff out there. We mainly used it to inspire our imagination and fantasies.

  24. Victor0884 says:

    Porn, threesomes and swinging great discussions about hard to talk about issues for believers. Maybe, some are not as comfortable as others but I think it is great that these issues have been addressed. Even one commenter talking about being involved in the swinging lifestyle previously, I applaud you and thank everyone for their openness and honesty.

  25. Skipper says:

    After finding MarriageHeat.com and pursuing what I want sexually, a lot of what is out there is not worth paying any attention to in even a fleeting way. They were marginally interesting before only because I was in pursuit of ideas. (For what it's worth, I don't watch videos or read books for fun. I can't tell you the last time I watched TV or a movie, or read a novel. I'd rather get into hard-core physical activities such as boating, flying, caving, and other high-adventure activities.)

    Currently, I'm pursuing solo suspension. Part of it is displayed as erotic art for illustration. In times past, the mere sight of a person exposing themselves would turn me on. However, because I'm using my imagination in new and interesting ways for what I can do myself, the images have negligible effect.

    Could it being when we're actively and passionate pursuing what we desire, counterfeits become uninteresting?!!

  26. LilaY69 says:

    I am amazed at the amount of positive feedback! I honestly thought it would be a lot more controversial than what it seems to be.

    It's quickly turned out to be quite revealing that a large majority of us here share the same or similar perspective, and which really comes down to the fact that 'anything goes' in the bedroom.

    It's becoming ever clearer to me, now that more 'controversial' topics are being discussed, that there have thought to have been a lot of unwarranted stigmas that surround our God-given sexuality as it relates to its place within our marriages and sex lives.

    Instead of having unreasonable guilt or self-reproach for being turned-on by certain ideas or things, they can be utilized for you and your spouse's benefit in the bedroom. Whether it's written/visual erotica, or erotic fantasies of threesomes, girl-on-girl, group sex, same-sex, or swinging… All of these things can theoretically be used to create only more sexual appetite between you and your spouse.

    • MarriageHeat says:

      In the interest of full disclosure, this post did receive one negative comment that did not meet the guideline for tone. It is the only one that did not get published.

      Keep in mind that those who comment on a particular post usually hold strong opinions on the subject addressed and those with opposing views may not comment because they don't know how to express their opposition calmly or they feel their opinion would not be approved for publication. The results of the anonymous poll may be more indicative of the wider audience, or at least of those who chose to read the post, though we did make it available a little late in the game.

  27. HigherQuest says:

    Great to see so many supportive responses to LilaY69's post. The environment at MH is an amazingly helpful one!

    Because many folks here have discussed Swinging, or Open Marriages, since there are many Christians trying this form of sexual relationship out, I thought I'd express a perspective that may reflect the God design. I'm glad to hear that folks here reject these behaviors because I suspect they are far more likely to be hurtful than helpful.

    Here's why… It appears from Scripture that God added a mystical dimension to the sphere of sexual practice. That mystical dimension I'd call "The love connection." In other words, when two people choose to have sex with each other, because of the way God made them, it is almost impossible to do so without igniting the "love connection." We just naturally (or mystically) begin to experience love for that person. Hearts begin to bond. I believe God's terminology for marriage reflects this "The two shall become one…". If we believe we can have sex with someone we don't intend to become our marriage partner I suspect we are bucking up against this principle and will very likely experience a love connection take place that in most cases will offend, wound, or destroy the one we are married to. The moment I begin a sexual relationship with a person, even if I strongly determine it won't happen…, in that moment my heart begins the process of becoming one with them. I'm not sure any of us would even want to learn a technique in sex that would hinder this bonding process because of how it might impact our marriages. So, if I have sex with another woman, even with my wife's permission, presence, and participation, it is sooo likely that what we didn't want to happen would begin to happen, and I would begin to fall in love with that woman.

    This is why so often swingers find themselves initially committing to their spouse that they will never have sex with the "other" person unless we're all together in it, but the reality is that because love begins to develop it becomes very hard to not meet with them without our spouses awareness or permission. The marriage is now moving towards the destruction phase, and to pull back from it becomes less and less likely with every sexual connection.

    I'm so glad to see folks here working through unreasonable approaches to visual representations of sex, but my prayer is that none of us drop all our boundaries and try the dangerous move towards an open marriage. I know many Christians are trying it, and my guess is that most ultimately realize how devastating it became for them. Will God forgive them? Absolutely! But how much better to avoid the need for His forgiveness and the destruction that such relationships will likely experience!

    Boundaries are such important things…and I can tell everyone here seems to have expanded their boundaries beyond what they previously gave themselves permission for, and in case after case, they express how it has improved their sex lives and marriages. Visual erotic media has huge benefits for those who can maintain healthy boundaries, as does a glass of wine, but when it opens the emotional door to life destruction that's where we must pull back. May God continue to expand our borders into healthy arenas and protect us from the dangerous ones…

    • MarriageHeat says:

      Until this comment, we had no idea such a movement existed. We'd love to see this comment reworked to stand alone as an Advice Offered post. We suspect there would be some deep conversation around it. Any stories involving swinging posted on MH will not advocate for the lifestyle, but we do see the need to be able to talk about the draw of it, what the Bible says about such relationships, and the worldly repercussions.

    • SecondMarge says:

      What if I said, "The way to a man’s heart is through his stomach. Never let your husband eat another woman’s cooking or he will have a 'love connection' with her." I don't mean to be rude, but I think too often we project our own feelings and beliefs onto others and assume theirs are the same. We might understand some scripture to support our opinion while another doesn't see the same passage that way. It’s like when you see a show about Nostradamus and they back-fit history into one of his quatrains.

      We may not like, approve or understand, but any given weekend tens of millions of single people will have sex because it feels good. They will become one body for a few minutes. A year later they won’t remember each other’s names. To me, that is not the intimacy I need and desire, but I know for some it is enough until what I have comes along. We need not assume others think just like us. There are millions of couples that live together happily without marriage for as long or longer than the average marriage lasts regardless of what we believe.

      If a couple swaps partners and they find they enjoy the other person more, how is it different than those that divorce and remarry for other reasons?

      These discussions are helpful because they open our eyes to how differently others' lives are than ours, and it isn’t for us to judge. While we should share the happiness we enjoy, we need to be tolerant of others' decisions, even if we feel they oppose opinions we reach reading the Bible.

      MH, what movement? Are they bringing back the “free love” movement of the 60’s?

    • MarriageHeat says:

      HigherQuest mentioned that many Christians are trying out this form of sexual relationship: swinging or open marriages; we were unaware of that becoming prevalent. It is the antithesis of what MH stands for: Hot Biblical *Monogamy*. That's why stories here don't involve anything that one can't enjoy with only their spouse. (The exception to that is stories about coming out of or narrowly escaping becoming involved in "the lifestyle.") We firmly believe in and exist to support one man-one woman, committed sexual unions: marriage. But we recognize that people come (or come back) to the Cross from every imaginable past. Honest discussion of those experiences may help someone struggling today.

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      Marge, you are right. Tens of thousands of those who aren't walking in obedience to Christ will have sex outside of marriage. And why would we expect them not to, if they don't believe that the loving God who created them knows and wants what is best for them.

      But I believe they suffer for it in the long run. I say this from experience. Whether it is something "mystical" or just the way God designed the hormonal system to work, sex builds bonds. When sex is casual, when it is not preceded by a mutual life-long commitment, those bonds are broken over and over. At least in my case, it became harder to love, harder to trust, harder to believe we are worth that lifetime exclusive relationship or that one can even exist in this day and age.

      What's the difference between swingers who break up over an outside partner and those who divorce for other reasons? None. And the repercussions are just as bad in either case. But adding a sex partner seems like lighting the fuse on a stick of dynamite and hoping it's a dud. Again, experience speaking.

      It's true that many of us see things differently and I like that we can share our pasts, our fantasies, and our commitment to obedience to Christ in a way that shows love and respect for each other. We have to be able to address these things in conversation rather than shove them under a bushel basket.

      But I feel blessed to be a part of a community that stands for keeping the focus on growing our passion for and with our *spouse* rather than inviting in others. I believe—no, I know!—that there is forgiveness for every way we miss the mark, whether it's by being to strict or too lenient, too far to the left or to the right. I won't tell others what to do nor hate them for choices they've made, but I will tell them what I think and have experienced so that they can at least learn from my mistakes. That's not being judgemental, it's love.

  28. HeSaid-SheSaid says:

    Wow, so much to consider and think and talk about. I must admit that years ago I would have been 100% against any form of nudity or display of sex, either visual or written, except for handwritten drawings for purpose of education. I have certainly changed my stances since.

    First off, Adam and Eve originally enjoyed a relationship with God all the while being nude. I suspect if they, and no one else ever sinned, we would all be naked and fine with it today. I see the human body as being made in the image of God, so everyone living person has a beauty all to their own and should not be ashamed to own it. Am I a nudist? Not yet, but would like to try an at home nudist lifestyle with my wife and possibly even a nude beach at some point. Not sure if I would like being nude in front of friends or family, there is a certain appeal to anonymity.

    Now what about seeing someone in person having sex or ourselves being watched have sex? Certainly very arousing to me and my wife in both scenarios. But would very much want to guard against swinging and anything like it.

    As for the visual erotica, I love to see images of the female form and so does my wife. She doesn't mind the male form either, but I'm not drawn to seeing naked men. But a man and woman having sex together I could stomach I think. My wife and I have recently discussed viewing erotica together, but not porn. The main caveat is that we would prefer to watch married couples having real sex, nothing fake, sometimes referred to as "ethical porn". Problem is, most visuals out there are of unmarried couples, and you usually have to pay real money to see that. I wouldn't want to financially support something for my own enjoyment where two people have to sinfully fornicate in order to produce it. In the same manner, girl on girl would be stimulating and enjoyable to watch, and even if it was free to watch, the fact remains that those women had to actually do something that God forbids, and I would never want to encourage anyone to do something God forbids, even if I derived pleasure from it. But yeah, it is hot to watch and fantasize about.

    Now about fantasy, consider the following. Children's play is almost always born out of fantasy. It's how they discover and process life. I can't remember where I read it, but there was an article where a mom overheard her 5 year old daughter playing with dolls and such, she heard the daughter say, "Now I'm the mommy and you're my kids, you stay home with the babysitter while I go out on a date and look for a new daddy for you". The mom was shocked as she and her husband were happily married, as were most family and friends her daughter came in contact with. So where did this daughter get this play fantasy from? Apparently she had a friend at kindergarten who was going through this exact scenario at home. So by playing it out, this was the way this little girl was processing the information, and it was done in the safety of home.
    As adults, our sex is also our play, and we can sometimes work out complex sexual ideas and issues through our sex play by utilizing fantasy with our spouse in the safety of our home and bedroom. Can visual erotica play a part in that? I must admit that I am cautiously drawn to it and want to try, but certainly want to guard against addiction.

  29. PatientPassion says:

    One important line for me is drawn between (M)AVE (Married Audio-Visual Erotica) and porn. That distinction has already been drawn, but here's my take: Pornography literally means "depiction of sexual immorality," which means by definition the acts portrayed are sinful. I believe it's wrong to actively seek out and enjoy something that is grievously offensive to God, no matter how "beneficial" it might seem to your relationship. (And keep in mind, by watching, you're financially supporting even the "free" porn because of the advertising revenue they usually gain from your traffic.)

    But I have a harder time condemning anyone watching MAVE, which involves only a married man and woman. Sex as God designed it was included in everything he called "very good," so we wouldn't be watching something that hurts God, but something that pleases him deeply! And what pleases him should please us, right?

    With that personal hard line drawn against porn, I still draw a soft line against MAVE. Generally it might be safer, but it still offers many of the same potential dangers as porn if we aren't careful. It sounds like MAVE tends much more toward "soft core" than "hard core" content, since it's often raw footage of real couples, not actors and acts that are intended to be as visually stimulating as possible. I would liken it to the difference between artificial sweeteners vs. fruit sugar; one is contrived to be as powerful and addicting as possible, the other is more natural and healthy, but both can still be harmful in the wrong quantities or circumstances. Likewise, even AVE can be unhealthy when paired with certain attitudes or proclivities.

    Even when the acts on the screen are "God approved," there is still a potential for lust, having your focus drawn away from your spouse, and training your brain to respond to digital visual stimulation rather than the sight and presence of your spouse. If you take measures to avoid these, I have a hard time finding anything else wrong with MAVE.

    (There's also a potential privacy issue. I've wondered if sex is such an intimate and vulnerable thing that no one but the two engaged in the act should see it, but I don't have a biblical basis for that. In fact, biblically speaking, if marriage and sex are a picture of Christ and the church, and we want to show everyone our relationship with Christ, there may tentatively be a biblical case *in favor* of MAVE and married written erotica. I think this is basically why MH exists, and also perhaps why God put Song of Songs in the bible!)

    That's my own current personal standard, and I recognize that I can't expect everyone to hold to it. Biblically, we're all supposed to work out our own faith and beliefs through prayer and the Word, and if others come to a different conclusion than me, that's their business.

    I have a personal history with both porn and MAVE that I may write more about in the future, but I cut ties completely with both about 6 months ago. I had already mostly stopped, but held onto one particular porn video series that, in my defense and theirs, was legitimately intended to be educational. It still didn't feel right though, for reasons described earlier, and I stopped. And perhaps it's just coincidence, but ever since then, I've felt more growth and connection with God and in other areas of my life.

    I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable watching even MAVE (with or without my future wife) simply for enjoyment, because I want all of my energy and focus to be on my wife and deepening our intimacy and relationship. However, I'm not completely against it for learning purposes. I think I'd be willing to watch some things with my future wife to learn how to bring each other even more pleasure. I do think we're far too uptight about nudity and sexual education, and I think that's one legitimate way to loosen up our taboos a bit as long as we keep proper boundaries in place to ward off some of the dangers I mentioned earlier.

    • Penny4URthoughts says:

      I appreciate reading the wide variety of opinions. And everyone is entitled to theirs no matter how different it is than our own. To me sex is either marital play or an attempt to procreate. I can not fathom why some put the deep serious meanings into play. But it’s certainly their prerogative to redefine words and interpret scripture to fit their opinion. Since biblical scholars have disagreed on passage meanings for centuries, I can hardly expect those of us here to agree.
      Attempting to bring life into the world is truly a special act. Trying to get each other to orgasm is fun and anything not harming anyone else that the couple agrees on goes. From toys to fantasies to sexually stimulating material. Splitting hairs on who made the material and for what reason seems like rationalizing. But if that is what your heart tells you, you have to go with it.

  30. BALove says:

    Clearly this line of discussion has created a lot of responses which is healthy. My simple added perspective is that the porn industry is littered with illegal activity that includes human trafficking and abuses of many kind. Without a viewership there wouldn’t be a market to drive these illegal offenses. All who use porn should think about the contributing impact to the abuse of other human beings.

    There are many ways for a husband and wife to fantasize and create excitement in their love lives beyond porn.

    Lastly, I would add that God’s word clearly points us away from sexual sin and I believe if you dive into His word you’ll find the answers you may be looking for.

    I hope this perspective challenges some to think about their use of porn differently.

  31. Jhotman says:

    Very intriguing discussion. What stands out to me here is that splitting hairs between porn and "visual erotica" seems a bit absurd. A simple reading of scripture is usually the best. In the sermon on the mount Jesus laid out a new framework for God's people. A new life where our lives and actions are born from a heart that is changed. I do agree that a passing appreciation of a female form is just a natural expression of my God given sexuality. But it seems pretty clear that when Jesus said "anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery in his heart" he meant what he said. I understand the technical difference between an erotic movie of a man and his wife and the sinfulness and abuse of the porn industry, but can I as a Christian man watch and be aroused by a naked woman who is not my wife? As much as I would like to have a loop hole, in my heart I know the answer for myself.
    Also, on a practical level, I would caution against using visual stimulation even if it makes you hotter for your spouse at the present. Sexual images have an effect on our brains and you may be desensitizing your sexual response and will regret it later.
    Blessings to all!

    • PacMan says:

      In the same way, I think it’s kind of foolish to split hairs between visual erotica and written erotica. If you condemn one as inherently sinful, you can’t give a “free pass” to the other just because the mode or medium is different. It’s something every reader on MH should deeply consider. (In my comment above, I argue that neither are inherently sinful, it’s all about the heart motive of the user.)

    • seXcaliber says:

      PacMan, I would agree on principle that visual erotica has the same effect on the consumer. But not on the producer. In order for visual erotica to be produced a person or people have to physically engage in some sort of sex. In written erotica no one has to do anything except the writer has to imagine it.

      Also with written it is very easy to imagine your own spouse in the scenario with you. In visual erotica you are seeing one or more actual people and “using” them to stimulate yourself.

      Honestly I can’t imagine watching a woman that I was attracted to having sex either solo or with someone and not desire to have sex with her. Maybe I would never do that in real life because it would hurt my spouse and be a sin. But I believe some people are deceiving themselves if they think that looking at someone in order to be aroused somehow doesn’t equate to “wanting” that person.

      And consuming visual erotica makes you a participant in someone else’s sin (if they are not married).

      Just a thought on the difference.

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      seXcaliber said: "Honestly, I can’t imagine watching a woman that I was attracted to having sex either solo or with someone and not desire to have sex with her."

      But some can and do. They can see someone having sex and want sex, not want to have sex *with them*. I think that is the voyeuristic trait. Others like to be seen having sex without craving the watcher's interaction in any other way. That's an exhibitionist streak.

      It may be more fooling ourselves to think that everyone else does or should respond to visual stimulation the same way we do.

      I'm NOT defending porn that depicts sin, though. In that case, I agree that I am tacitly agreeing to and approving their wrongdoing by enjoying it. That's how I draw the line between AVE and porn. And the biggest difficulty with the easily available sources are that its all mixed together. :/ So, for me, I do best to avoid it. Otherwise, I get sucked into watching things that I feel bad about. I would not feel that way about being a voyuer to an exhibitionist married couple's video.

    • SecondMarge says:

      SeXcaliber we are 180 degrees apart. People tend to rationalize that what they enjoy is fine but what they don’t is wrong. If I hear or read about others having sex it turns me on. Yet I am not attracted to either person, merely sex itself. Visual is no different. In fact my first comment when my husband shares visual erotica with me is that I can’t believe how unappealing the people are. I have never coveted a person I have seen in visual erotica. To the best of my knowledge neither has my husband. I think people are more attractive in written erotica because my imagination fills in the blanks.

    • seXcaliber says:

      Secondmarge I never said I did not enjoy it. Far from it. In fact reading the comments makes me long for a loophole. Honestly, I would love to be able to watch porn (I include any video depiction of sex acts for other people to watch as porn, unpopular as it may be.) I used to look at it for hours. I became addicted. I wasn’t even watching videos for the most part. (This was 20 years ago about.) I was merely looking at those glorious women’s bodies. I can still remember a few of their names!

      I’m not judging anyone for enjoying it. It’s perfectly natural. But natural does not equate to godly. All sin is natural. That’s why we do it.

      Believe me, if I thought Jesus was down with me watching Girls Sudsy Rubdown I would pop it in right now. (Not a real title… that I know of). But I know when I saw Judy and Karen rubbing soap suds on each other’s tits I would desperately want to participate (or imagine myself participating). i don’t see how that is not lust without some real hermeneutical gymnastics.

      If you can honestly watch and be turned on and believe you don’t want that person you have a very different wiring than me. 🙂

      Marge, I believe you commented on another thread that if some is looking at a woman and gets an erection he wants to have sex with her. ?

      I know many will disagree. But I bet more are out there with these types of reservations who are perhaps not wanting to raise a fuss.

      It’s not my intention to put anyone else down here.

      P.s. Marge, you may be clicking on the wrong links if no one is attractive in the porn you watch. 😉
      Or perhaps it’s changed in the last two decades.

  32. Prince of Denmark says:

    To me it's a miracle that this site exists and shows how Christians are starving to talk about these issues. Coming from a strict, traditional background I spent the first 35 years of my life trying to repress my desires and hold to the norms and expectations presented to me as a child. Only in very recent years am I allowing myself to think about sex differently and allowing myself to explore without feeling guilty. The simple fact is that the more experimental and boundary pushing I've become, the better our marriage and sex life has been. Human sexuality is so unbelievably complex and I'm frankly not able to conform to the strict moral rules that we have inherited without falling into depression and experiencing significant mental health issues. Sex is an art form that I need to enjoy and embrace in ways that makes me feel alive and in love. I want to be with my wife, and only her, forever. But I also long to learn and take pleasure from others. Visual erotica is wonderful. I'm so happy and grateful for the people who share their sexuality with others in a beautiful, visual way. I'm not confident enough yet to do that, but one day I hope we will be. My dream is that we could give other loving couples the opportunity to pleasure themselves while watching us. I would be so proud and grateful. I absolutely recognize that there is a dark and dangerous side to sex, but what I'm interested in is embracing healthy, loving sex and bringing it to the light to share with others – which is actually what I see happening on this site.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Sharing with other couples is an interesting idea. Would you record yourselves and make the recordings available to other Christian married couples? Before my husbands current illness we would spend time in person and on the video phone with a nudist couple we know. Seeing each other nude was exciting. It never progressed to them having sex but there was touching. Very hot and safe.

    • Tulsa says:

      "Sharing with other couples is an interesting idea. Would you record yourselves and make the recordings available to other Christian married couples? Before my husbands current illness we would spend time in person and on the video phone with a nudist couple we know. Seeing each other nude was exciting. It never progressed to them having sex but there was touching. Very hot and safe."

      We have done this, both vids and in person, but only with one couple we know.
      And certainly, no touching at all was involved. Just watching.
      We sure wouldn't want to go sending out videos or pictures willy-nilly.

    • SecondMarge says:

      Tulsa I would not send out videos at all with or without a Willy or Nilly. But observing another couple in person or live camera has advantages over most erotica. And no I don’t think it would be wrong. In fact in days gone by where several families slept around a fire in a one-room house, observing others having sex must have been common and likely inspirational. But since then we have had the war against sex, trying to make it a sin.

  33. AdamW says:

    Lots of great discussion here. I agree with the majority that this is something each couple can work out for themselves

    But I only saw one comment addresses the ethics of the porn industry itself. I have increasingly decided that the real ethical dilemma of porn, especially for Christians, is that most of it relies on the exploitation of vulnerable women. Most of the women in porn videos are doing it out of desperation for money and/or because they are emotionally damaged children of God. Even the men are hired for nothing more than an erection, so the pressure of having to get it up on cue or be fired must be enormous. And a lot of the "amateur" stuff out there is probably posted against the woman's wishes, as "revenge porn." She may be smiling at the camera but in reality she is mortified that it's out there. I am not saying this is 100% the case but it's obviously a very exploitative industry.

    Yet I think Christians, and certainly almost all the anti-porn stuff I heard growing up and still hear, don't focus on this. Instead I heard a lot about "temptresses" trying to draw me in, about misleadingly "perfect bodies" that would distort my thinking and ruin me, and generally dumping on the people in porn as nothing more than despicable sinners that we needed to have nothing to do with.

    I think we could all do far better at controlling the use of porn if we flip our thinking around and focus on the real "sinners" as the men controlling most of the industry. Rather than all the handwringing about what the vulnerable people on the screen do or don't do. But that seems to just be an afterthought in most Christian discussions of porn. I think it should be at the top.

    I do not mean to dump on or condemn anyone who has shared their thoughts here. I think there can certainly be a place for couples to allow themselves to be stimulated by outside erotica. But I think most Christians have their priorities backward here.

    • PacMan says:

      “… most of [porn] relies on the exploitation of vulnerable women.”

      This might have been true years ago. Not any more. The majority of porn is produced with cell phones as a form of self-expression. It’s way less produced by an “industry” and most is done with free will and without the expectation of any financial compensation. Are there some porn “studios” that hire erections? Yes. Is there some female exploitation these days? Yes. Are there some “revenge porn” videos? I’m sure. But this isn’t 1993. The smart phone era has changed everything. And the majority of nude images and videos are forms of self-expression. The things you said are all true… just from a different era.

  34. Beachlover Guy says:

    My wife and I have posted some of our nude and sex photos anonymously on sites just to see what reaction they would get before removing them. We did it to share our love and our enjoyment of our bodies that God gave us. Has anyone else done that, and would others here consider that sinful?

    • Penny4URthoughts says:

      I don’t see how it could be a sin. My husband has sent anonymous pictures of me and himself to a couple web pages. It resulted in swapping pictures with other married couples. Mostly just nudes but some are masturbation or other sex acts. I understand how that could lead to swapping in person. Which he did in his second marriage. But we have agreed that it isn’t an option for us. We chose monogamy for our marriage. None of what we have done is a sin.

    • PatientPassion says:

      The main concern that comes to mind is the possibility of inspiring sinful lust in your audience. In Romans 14:20 Paul discusses this sort of concept in the context of food. In the context of sex and sharing pictures, it might sound like "Do not, for the sake of (sexual exploration), destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he (does sexually)." So even if you believe there's nothing wrong with the act of eating certain foods (or posting pictures), you have to consider what the effects might be on the consumer.

      Of course, if this idea is taken to it's logical extreme, you end up with full-body coverings like in Islam, or the ultra-conservative dress of Christians over the last several hundred years. I think there's a balance to be struck where we make a reasonable effort to avoid inspiring lust, but I certainly don't believe in forcing women (or men) to dress a certain way, so I'm not sure where the dividing line is.

    • CrazyHappyLoved says:

      PP, I get where you are coming from: Romans 14:13 "Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this– not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block ***in a brother's way.***" (Emphasis mine.) I would only suggest that those who post photos or videos to certain adult sites are not putting a stumbling block in another's path. Any brother or sister who finds them has to be knowingly looking for what they are posting. They aren't going to accidentally come across it. I see it as the difference between inviting an ethics-vegetarian to a BBQ or inviting your meat-loving friends. If you know your brother is weak and you put it on the TV when he comes over, then yeah; that's not love. If you share it with others – especially like-minded Christians – who aren't troubled by questions of conscience on the issue, then the afore-mentioned brother wasn't the intended audience. No, don't encourage your brother to walk against his convictions by what you choose to do in his known presence. But especially in the internet age, there is an element of personal responsibility in what we choose to "consume" that doesn't put the onus on the "producer" to do other than follow his own conscience.

  35. Horny_boy says:

    Thank you Lila for your openness on this topic. (btw, I thought you were older. I'm in my early 20s, but you seem pretty mature on this topic.) Yes, I do enjoy visual erotica and I think it's not fair to label it all as porn.
    What I enjoy the most is watching when women are experiencing pleasure and that include girl-on-girl, orgies between women, girls masturbating to orgasm, cunninlingus between girls, and the like.

    Having said that, it's crazy to think that MH is a Christian website but it is, and as a Christian, I don't know how to reconcile my sexual pleasure with the beliefs I stand for. I'm against homosexuality, but when I see lesbian porn, my penis gets so hard just watching women going down on each other or rubbing their pussies. The websites that I visit on a regular basis are (according to them) really female friendly, educational, and top notch. And yes, it's really hot! But I think the question would be as a Christian: does this glorify God? To be honest, I don't think it does. So many women on MH said that these fantasies are healthy and normal and maybe they think so. But I have concluded that maybe these desires that we have are because of our sinful nature. (Please don't get angry with me, I'm just offering a friendly opinion here.) What are your thoughts on our sinful nature or fallen nature? Anyway, as far as I know I think MH was ok to recommend erotic websites such as frolicMe and others [From MH- We don't; see below], I really like it, but I think there are better erotic websites out there that value female pleasure.

    [MH does not *recommend* any porn or audio-visual erotica site because we have never seen one we felt focused on exclusive married sex. They might be "female-friendly" in that they appeal to females or don't allow abusive themes, and some may focus on monogamous relationships, but none exclude homosexuality and multiple partners. Since MH supports hot Biblical monogamy—which we define as sex within a heterosexual, exclusive marriage—these themes are not ones we can recommend in videos. We do believe they can be a part of healthy *fantasy* in some marriages.]

  36. New Wife says:

    While I totally understand and abide by MH's position, we have found a lot of visual erotica to be very helpful to our marriage. Of course, though much of this material doesn't explicitly state that the couple are married, we are OK with the relationship they have. And some of the material is solo so that's OK with us too.

    For example, we've watched videos on pleasuring each other manually and orally, various positions, role plays, etc. and learned a great deal about these topics. And I'm OK with two women explaining/demonstrating a technique so that my DH can better grasp it. Many products also are marketed with "how to" clips that involve nudity and we're fine with that too.

    To us the criteria mentioned early in this discussion are critical:

    1. Is the use of erotica drawing me closer to my spouse (or farther)?
    2. Is erotica edifying my marriage (or interfering)?
    3. Am I using erotica (written or visual) without becoming addicted?
    4. Is Erotica able to be used without creating secrets and dishonesty with my spouse?

    For us, we need to answer YES to all of these so that we know we are being ethical and have sound judgment.

    • PacMan says:

      Thanks for reposting the criteria i had posted earlier! I genuinely think AVE is less of a Biblically B&W issue, so it’s more of a Spirit-led decision. I think these 4 questions can help guide people to use practical spiritual discernment. [And grateful you posted b/c the earlier post is pretty “buried” in this long thread!]

    • Penny4URthoughts says:

      Erotica, especially visual, can be a huge turn on for both of us. Especially if it’s something so naughty we are not going to do it. Then again in his second marriage there wasn’t much he didn’t experience. So far he can watch it without wanting to go back to that life.

    • LilaY69 says:

      @Penny4URthoughts

      "Erotica…can be a huge turn on for both of us. Especially if it’s something so naughty we are not going to do it."

      ^ Kinko that!

      How long have you and your husband been married? What fantasies or kind of erotica do you enjoy with your husband?

      Please consider writing some stories or fantasies!!

    • Penny4URthoughts says:

      LilaY69 not sure most of our fantasies would be acceptable here. We both tried a few things after our first marriages ended. My husband continued his experiments with his second wife to the point he tried almost everything that didn’t involve injuring. Now we are in a monogamous marriage where intimacy has replaced and exceeded sex.
      Our fantasies mostly grow out of past experiences. As I said almost nothing is forbidden in our fantasy life. Often the more taboo the hotter it gets.
      Maybe if MH ever allows F-rated stories to include a third person I might write a story.

  37. LadyGarden says:

    Such an incredibly honest, vulnerable and thought provoking thread; great feedback everyone and a big shout out to LilaY69 for initiating these topics…and to MH for the courage to facilitate this discussion.

    My husband and I love being nude and as was mentioned, Adam and Eve were nude in the Garden before the fall, God communed with them and nobody was uncomfortable or ashamed. Their nudity was perfectly natural, a wonderful God given gift. The nakedness of the human body can be quite beautiful and quite erotic.

    Nudity is quite intimate and honest, with little if anything to hide. And as mentioned, nudity does not always have to include a sexual component. Readers of our stories may recall instances of my sister and I spending untold hours over the years together in the nude. We still do so when we can. Eccentric yes—incestuous—no. We share a very intimate bond. My sister even accidentally walked in on my husband once while showering mistakenly thinking it was me not K. (Will have to write a story about that 😉)

    K and I are big components of AVE and wish there was an outlet to savor instances of actual married couples making love. These are very hard to find online. Nothing fake, no porno or so-called acting. Rather two people who have committed their lives together in marriage physically and spirituality expressing their love for one another. Our hearts melt in passion observing the intimate beauty of a married couple kissing and tightly embracing each other in the missionary position making love.

    Sure, K and I have exhibitionist tendencies and quite enjoy sexual fantasies—some of our favorites include me making love to a mysterious stranger, man in a uniform, or dear special friend recently widowed or adult man not knowing how to be with a woman so tenderly teach him. My husband fantasizes of me making love to a dear special friend; male or female, as a special “consummation” of our intimate friendship. During sex we also openly discuss and imagine scenarios of ourselves in 3 way and similar erotic creative scenarios including role playing Marriage Heat scenarios.

    The gift of Marital sex and the naked human form-especially we females-are incredible, gifts from above. We must not covet nor compare ourselves to others, nor substitute intimacy with our spouses with what we fantasize about or experiences thru AVE. It’s like that neighbor’s Ferrari in the driveway example—we can look and marvel at it. Yet we must not become obsessed with it or takes steps to unlawfully obtain it.

    Maybe one day MH will evolve to a special community where pictures or videos of married couples making love will be displayed for those like us who are interested, even if fees are involved to help defray administrative costs. Nothing pornographic, violent or exploitative, rather beautiful photo/video/audio captures of real married couples making love together.

    Now if you’ll please excuse me, I’m all worked up now and need to masturbate with my Magic Wand and Magic Bullet, and enjoy the taste of the nectar from my fingers after sticking them into my sweet little pussy.

    Damn, I taste good…
    LadyGarden

    • IndyDad says:

      LadyGarden – yours is about the best reply/comment on a post I have seen here, written with intelligence and honesty. Thanks for sharing so much about you and your husband's life.

    • SecondMarge says:

      LadyGarden

      I’m glad I’m not the only one. Hopping into the shower to join my husband when it was actually his almost same build brother in full glory. They are not the same size in every way.

      My husband and I, before his illness, had met another couple that liked being nude with others. They are also Christians so there was never any thought of swinging. But we did set up tablets so we could see each other from our homes. We could touch ourselves or our own spouses. I doubt it would have gone beyond that.

      I don’t see any difference between seeing another couple in a video or in person. Very sexy either way. I can see how some people become exhibitionists. I enjoy watching far more. Both of them.

      Great comments LadyGarden. Yes nudity with others doesn’t need to be sexual. Usually it isn’t.

      My husband has similar fantasies including me with a divorced friend of his. Many others, male and female. They were fun pillow talk. I guess it’s a guy thing.

    • LilaY69 says:

      Thank you so much LadyGarden!! You're truly one of my all time favorite writers and I admire you and your marriage very much. Your stories and comments have made my panties wet time after time, and needless to say has inspired many sexcapades with my husband. I'm so glad to see you active again! Please continue to be.

      As you probably already know, my husband and I also share the same sex fantasies as you and your husband. We too love using erotic sex fantasy, and it is really a blessing to our marriage and intimacy. We of course also love the fantasy of having a 3 way and the idea of me being with another man or woman is a huge turn-on for us both.

    • LilaY69 says:

      I also enjoy fantasizing about having a very intimate and lovingly physical encounter with a close female or male friend while also still being married to my husband. My husband also is very turned on by this fantasy, especially of me being with one of my girl friends or being with another woman in general.

      I would certainly love to discuss more with you in regards to you and your husband's use of sexual fantasy and what your favorite fantasies entail. As well as your use of audio-visual-erotica and experiences with it in the past. Your reflection on both these topics is an exact mirror of ours and I couldn't have said it better myself.

      Like you, and I imagine a lot of women, I love the delicious taste of my pussy juices. I never pass the opportunity to lick and suck my sweet pussy juice off my fingers or the many toys of mine. I would absolutely love to eat out my own pussy and saver the yummy taste of my sticky honey pot nectar. Boy, oh, boy! Mmmm Mmm! That is also a big fantasy of mine, and probably one of the few that I really wish I could actually fulfill.

      Anyway got to go my panties and fingers are literally soaked as I lay in bed with my hand slipped underneath my panties rubbing and playing with my pink pussy as I type all this.

      God bless you girl!

      Tell your hubby as I hey!

      Keep gettin' those panties wet! Love ya! 😘💋❤️

    • sterlingcooper says:

      Ladygarden – I've very much enjoyed your stories and this was a beautifully honest and kind contribution. Thank you so much for posting us. I'm reassured that I'm not as "alone" in some of my fantasies and thoughts as I sometimes feel.

    • PacMan says:

      LadyG, Lila, Marge, Penny (among others)… the openness and vulnerability is so wonderful and exhilarating. I love what fantasy can do to us. Reading these thoughts and fantasies has got me hard as a rock. I’ve already oiled up and begun pleasuring myself… so I’m off now for sweet relief! Thank you all for the wonderful inspiration!!

    • AlwaysReady says:

      LadyGarden… Amazing honest post. (and hot at the end). We have some of the same fantasies. Nothing has ever been acted on.. but they are discussed!

  38. IndyDad says:

    I think SecondMarge is on to something with her observation that in "olden days" (pioneer times and before) "sometimes families slept around a fire in a one-room house, observing others having sex must have been common and likely inspirational." Pioneers usually had big families – so they obviously had sex a lot. Seeing mom and dad making love had to be an education experience for the kids, as well as witnessing breastfeeding. Things were all natural and accepted back then. I am sure such situations still go on in tribal villages around the world. Perhaps a return to the Garden would a good thing for modern Western society?

  39. IndyDad says:

    My wife and I are like Penny and her hubby….the more taboo our fantasy play the more exciting for us. And we known it's purely fantasies…but we do some very wild things.

    • Penny4URthoughts says:

      This has become a huge thread with some of the most open, honest and revealing comments. It’s unfortunate it can not be frozen in the discussions category where it could continue. Finding out many Christians here have similar thoughts, desires and fantasies makes me feel more comfortable.

    • PacMan says:

      I agree Penny! And I think you were one of the key figures. You made your FIRST comments ever… opened up with vulnerability, and were celebrated instead of judged. I love this community and I agree that THIS thread is a first-ballot entry into the MH Hall of Fame!!

  40. A Better Pastime says:

    An auditory method that my wife and employ is using two individual sets of earbuds, plugged into a single phone that is playing a video of one couple having sex. My wife has stated once, that she felt like the she was hearing the male sex grunt and groans inside her brain. It's a complete turn-on for me not having to speak, but just being able to lay back and listen while my wife is sucking me, or while i'm eating her. I'm always turned on by wondering what my wife is thinking when she hears certain sounds; especially sounds from the male that I know are a turn on for her. Often times, I can tell when a particular sound got to her as she'll physically react, immediately following that specific sound, with either a groan of her own or deeper sex movement she was already involved in. Its like having sex with another couple, but all the while having sex with your spouse. You get to feel the same physical sexual pleasure that you're hearing from the other couple. Its really a somewhat alternate sex-reality that you're having; all the while having full sexual pleasure with your very real spouse.

    • LilaY69 says:

      That sounds really interesting. Never would have thought about solely listening to another couple having sex, as opposed to watching and listening with hubs.

      One thing that would be very teasing for the both us is listening to the wonderful and lewd noises of a nice blowjob, or pussy eating for that matter.

    • A Better Pastime says:

      I know…its hard to imagine that anything can beat watching and listening with your spouse. Being male, especially, I can never say that anything can top that. That said, watching video together keeps my mind somewhat tuned to my wife. When we are just listening with the in-ear, earbuds, I'm fully tuned to the sex-audio while feeling the physical sex acts taking place between me and my wife. It feels like I'm in a different world, because my mind goes to fantasy. At the same time, I still get to feel, in reality, the same real physical sexual pleasure that I'm taking in from the sex sounds coming from the other couple. I love wondering, the entire time, what my wife is thinking of the sounds that we're both listening too while we're both fully separated from each other in terms of our own auditory exchange. I'm finding this really difficult to explain, beyond its a trip, its very much like a virtual reality experience, and its a total turn on. Because my mind is so focused on the sounds, having to picture what the other couple might be doing, combined with the real sexual pleasure that I'm having at the same time, I do very much feel like my wife and I are having an encounter with another couple. We'd love to get your take on the experience if you try it for yourselves. Also, and I know you know this, but you can a video of exactly what you'd like to "hear"…I'm sure. ;-> My wife and I love the "fucking" sounds. My wife especially loves the male grunt-fucking sounds. Video with good male audio is hard to find. Video with real sex sounds seems hard to find as well.

  41. ILoveSex says:

    Hi SecondMarge,

    Please do tell more about the time you accidentally hopped in the shower with your brother in law. Was it awkward? Or simply a "Hey, it's just the human body, no big deal (like Ladygarden's attitude … 2 thumbs up, by the way!). Since then, have you become more comfortable being naked in front of your BIL?

    • SecondMarge says:

      It was very adult. No uncontrollable desire. No screaming and running away. I joked about washing his back. He apologized for having an erection. Both offered to leave. I think we both felt a little awkward and a little aroused. In my view people make far to big a deal about nudity. I know I used to.

    • ILoveSex says:

      SecondMarge wrote: "In my view people make far too big a deal out of nudity."
      I totally agree! It's just the human body. We all have the same body parts! Curious: Do you keep bush or are you bald? (I'm a baldie☺). That's the kind of thing I usually check out when I see someone naked (female or male). Since your BIL had a boner, you might have interrupted a little play time. 😉

    • mrandmrshumperdink says:

      SecondMarge,

      My husband and I have done the same thing with my sister and BIL. We stayed in the same room in Vegas and both couples had sex in the room, each with their own spouse of course. Nothing was hidden and it was completely amazing to watch and be watched.

  42. ILoveSex says:

    Hi Ladygarden! So glad to see you back on MH!! We have missed you!! I love how comfortable you are being naked in front of others! That's so Awesome! If memory serves me correctly (from one of your stories a LONG time ago) aren't you and your sister even comfortable masturbating in front of each other too? Would love to hear another story about that!! Also, who else have you and your hubby hung out naked with? Has your sister's husband seen you naked too? Can't wait to read more of your sizzlin' stories!!

    • LilaY69 says:

      It may be a record breaker! I thought it would've been a lot more controversial than it ended up seeming to be.

      I do realize some are more opposed, or even completely opposed to the idea of viewing visual erotica with your spouse. Especially when it comes to considering watching threesomes, girl-on-girl, etc. That is polarizing, and I completely understand why one would believe that it's sinful to watch.

  43. LilaY69 says:

    Does anyone else strongly oppose watching AVE? What about sexual activity that's outside of a married couple in AVE?

    I really welcome anyone else who has yet to comment, especially those who are strongly opposed. Please don't be afraid of offending.

    • PatientPassion says:

      I commented earlier, but since no one else replied to you Lila, I'll summarize my thoughts.

      I find AVE (featuring married couples) to have its potential dangers, but from my understanding of the Bible, I can't condemn it as inherently sinful. However, I can't justify porn (any number or combination of unmarried people) from a biblical perspective. It feels wrong to me to seek out and enjoy any act that is sinful, and therefore deeply hurtful to God.

      I'm not sure yet about videos of just one person masturbating. It seems to fall in the category of acceptable AVE, but may come with additional risks greater than seeing a couple having sex, because there's no reminder that they're taken, and may open the door more readily to lust.

      Here's a new thought I had in regards to these recent discussions about AVE and sharing videos/images between Christian couples. I'm not entirely comfortable with those ideas, but if it's going to happen, I think any exhibitionism or voyeurism of any kind (in person or digital) should be done together as a couple. I don't have a biblical basis for that, but it seems like a reasonable safeguard to remind us of where our real focus should be: on our spouse.

      Thanks for starting this discussion, Lila! I'm sure it was uncomfortable for many, myself included, but we don't know the true strength of our beliefs until they're challenged. When beliefs are exposed and analyzed, generally speaking, they'll fall if they're wrong and stand if they're true, so it's good to have them challenged!

  44. ILoveSex says:

    SecondMarge, I just re-read your response. Kudos to you for not getting all embarrassed and running away screaming haha. I think it's pretty cool that you just hopped in and proceeded with your shower (if I've understood your reply correctly).

  45. southernmost says:

    I myself wrote a long time ago about something similar because I also enjoyed watching porn, certain types especially. However, in the recent months, I've stopped watching porn because I find it spoils me getting to know my body through masturbation. Everything becomes about the ejaculation and the whole pleasure experience is just forgotten – I started forgetting which touches my body liked and that was a problem for me; it felt unnatural.

    But that's my two cents. With regards to the topic, I think often of what Paul said: "All things are lawful to me," but not all things do profit. "All things are lawful to me," but I will not be mastered by anything.

    I think porn/erotica is neither a good or bad thing in of itself. It's a product like any other, be it in visual, audio or written form. One should just be wary though at how much time they spend using it. Just like eating too much food, you won't feel good if you overuse it, and anything has a risk of becoming an idol in your life if you spend too much time on it. As believers, our primary goal is to further the Kingdom of Heaven, and it will be difficult to do this if we're quite preoccupied with anything else, especially if we're occupied with ourselves. So the only question we can ask ourselves really, is will this be beneficial for me to do?

    Regarding fantasy; it's just that, a fantasy. We're judged on our actions, not our thoughts. I very much doubt most people would even live their fantasies out. But say you wanted to live a particular fantasy out? Again, would it be beneficial? Would it bring about more love? Or could it very easily lead to hate? With sexual freedom comes a lot of risk and I personally don't think God wants us to live risky lives. Paul said that whatever is not of faith is a mistake, and I think it good to ponder that.

    Now as I've said before, I recognize that people can't always live up to God's ideal of one man with one woman in a marriage. But I think we should at least try. I do think, however, that looking for too many extra things in your married life, like swinging, is now the opposite of trying your best. The Greek word for excess activities is where we get our word "orgy" from. I think it safe to say that habitual "orgies" would be a form of idolatry.

    These are just thoughts of mine, I'm not judging anyone for their actions, etc.

    Kind regards,
    Southernmost

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