Mentorship to Struggling Couple
We’ve been long time readers and have always enjoyed the content and discussions on here. We’ve been married for well over a decade and continue to enjoy a great sex life. Multiple times a week we enjoy the fruits of our marriage, and believe the frequency has led to openness which in turn has led to improved sex and intimacy over the years. We want to share that gift so other couples can benefit.
Flip this around, and we have friends who are struggling with intimacy. They have been married for years, and for a mix of reasons (mismatched libido, struggling to find their sex groove, etc.), they do not have a consistently good sex life, and it is taking a toll on their marriage. They seem tired, distant with each other, and invisible. He seems sexually frustrated with her, and she seems to have forgotten the beauty of married intimacy.
We have tried to discuss how to have better sex, because we believe as it improves, so does the frequency, which creates a continuous loop of desire, frequency, and thereby contentment. They have been receptive and listened, but we aren’t sure they have solved their challenges.
We have discussed helping them have better sex, but aren’t sure how open to be and how much mentorship we should give. We aren’t shy with them. We share tips and tricks. But we want to hear from those who have experienced similar circumstances. How have you helped other married couples who have struggled getting their sex lives going in a good direction?
How explicit would you be in giving sex advice or help for married Christian friends when couples shyness or awkwardness isn’t an issue? How have you helped friends in need in the past? Would it cross the lines to help coach and demonstrate for them and help them (with their married partner)? Any tips on handling this?
Hi Monogamyman1
I think how explicit you and your wife could be with them depends on your relationship with them and how open they are to that type of conversation. You mentioned that you aren’t shy with them, and that’s good, but as far as where their comfort level stops, I think that would have to be a direct question to them. For example, “We would like to share more, but it’s very explicit. Would you be comfortable with this?”
And depending on their response, you would know which way to go. You could also ask them to set the boundaries of the conversation. In other words, we can talk about this, but not that.
It would not be a sin, in my opinion, to coach them or to demonstrate, but that’s a serious level of trust and openness.
This could be a tricky situation because our Christian society is so hush hush about sex. We have really done ourselves a disservice by being so prudish about discussing marital sexual intimacy.
I guess that in similar circumstances we would recommend that the couple see a good marriage/sex therapist. We ourselves had some sexual conflicts that we resolved through both individual and marital counseling.
For instance, in therapy our “desire discrepancy” issue was actually resolved through us negotiating & setting up a sex schedule. I also “came” 😉 to appreciate that we were having a lot of sex anyway and so I became more grateful for what we had.
I commend you for your efforts to assist this couple. But I don’t think that actually “demonstrating” sex techniques while they watch you n your spouse having sex is a good idea. Maybe in a more perfect world that would be appropriate but our Puritanical ways are so set in stone.
That is unfortunate but true. Most, but not all, of our friends n family members are almost totally against talking about sex.
MH is a great source for sexual truth – & inspiration – in my opinion. But some Christians are totally uncomfortable with our content here.
Depending on the trust and comfort level which would have to be established first, you could coach and demonstrate sex techniques while they watch. It would be a slippery slope and big risk, though. Most Christians are not going to be comfortable with it, marital sex is just not discussed in church. In my opinion I don’t think it would be a sin just too big of a risk for you and your spouse. If it got out in the church gossip mill, wow that would be devastating for you.
I don't think you have to be very explicit. Sexual touching starts away from the genitals. People know how they like to be touched and should be able to communicate that to their partner long before intercourse starts happening.
Courting allows for couple to experiment with each other. They might want to start over as if they were going on their first date again and being open about how they like to be touched. Or when they experience/discover a good touch, let the other know about it so it can be repeated.
When I made out with my wife before we were married, I would run my hands all over her clothed body. Through this, she would let me know how and where she most liked it. Once it came to sex, we were in full sync and her dripping wet pussy was exhibit A for proof.
So I think advice can be given in general. It sounds to me like they don't want to hear it. Mostly these issues start with the basics and we don't have to get too much into it. Or give them a book to read and see what they think.
I still have Naura Hayden's sex book I bought when I wanted to know what to do. The techniques in there work and can be altered a bit here and there. It should be required reading in my opinion.
IsoHorny, yes, the exploration that my wife and I did while dating and engaged certainly helped prepare for marriage. The passionate kissing, cuddling, feeling each other's body over and under fabric, partly undressing each other, all that helped us learn what we liked and turned us on. I'd recommend that a seriously dating couple be intimate like that to help build toward marriage. At minimum, some tongue kissing and fondling of the butt and perhaps chest. If they like that but don't lose control, then I'd say start exploring the butt and back, even chests, under fabric. If they're very controlled, I'd expect make outs to eventually be only in underpants. And I wouldn't be surprised if the couple started slipping the back of the fabric down to maximize access. I might even encourage it.
I think demonstrating would be unwise and unnecessary at best, and almost certainly inappropriate. I think encouraging them to be open with each other is most important. And if necessary, offer to have frank, explicit discussion, if they're comfortable with it.
My own thought is that mentorship is only possible if people want to be mentored. And in the case of a couple, you have two different people to consider. Are they both equally open to your attempts to help? If it’s only one, then there’s the risk that your efforts will be resented by the other and even push them further apart.
The line “He seems sexually frustrated with her, and she seems to have forgotten the beauty of married intimacy.” suggests he might be more actively seeking advice than her.
This in my experience seems correct. My wife has a hard time being interested in sex or anything sexually related (thanks purity culture…). You could be giving the greatest advice and pointers in the world, but if one party isn’t interested or willing to put it into practice there’s only prayer at that point.
Before Ben passed away, I was a member of a ladies group where we openly discussed sex, love, relationships and marriage.. Everyone was allowed to use whatever language they were comfortable with. This is understood before each meeting. Right now I believe there are 11 members right now. Married, single, young and old. Most find it a blessing. Maybe after some time I will rejoin, but I don't feel like it's the right time right now. Thank you for this post!
God bless and stay horny!
I think the idea that the marriage is distant because of a lack of intimacy is most likely the wrong way round.
I totally believe that sex is a very important part of a marriage but is a result of a great relationship. I would start there.
It sounds like they are a very typical couple where he would feel close if they had sex, and she would want sex if she felt close.
This is, however, a massive over simplification.
One of the best resources I have listened to recently is the 'Married with Benefits' series of podcasts. So easy to listen to. Well researched and relatable. Some aimed at men, some at women, although I recommend listening to the lot!
I'm not saying sex isn't part of the whole picture, it is.
But great sex won't fix a struggling marriage. A great marriage is likely to fix struggling sex life.
I agree with this take 100%. Well said!
No one that has not struggled would be my mentor. No one without many experiences would be my choice. You learn far more from failure than immediate success.no one has all the right “moves” the first time.
We have church and Bible study couples we have shared information and suggestions and a motel room with for years. Not going to say we were sexual surrogates, but we have been as helpful as possible.
I would suggest recommending to them , or buying a copy for them of , "The Act of Marriage" by Tim & Beverly LaHaye.
As I re-read this again today and read the comments, there’s a high probability that there issue is not sexual but relational. When the author writes, “ They seem tired, distant with each other, and invisible. He seems sexually frustrated with her, and she seems to have forgotten the beauty of married intimacy,” these are symptoms that are not often resolved through improved sex – though that happens for some. These friends may need to learn to fall in love all over again. And then perhaps need some better sex skills too.
My wife is a licensed couples therapist and we have mentored people and couples at church for years.
A resource that I would recommend is the book naked marriage by dr. Corey Allen. Deals with the whole couple relationship first.
❤️
Yes, Kate and I have done this. We share pretty significant details with some of our close Christian couple friends, to include our matron of honor and her husband. Some others too, but they are the couple we are closest too. I love our matron (in a healthy, appropriate way), as she is a wonderful woman. Her husband has a great heart and has been a friend for many years, prior to them ever knowing each other. We have taken vacations together, helped each other out in tight situations, have our kids play together, etc. We want them to thrive. We would do anything we could to help them thrive.
When I "the talk" with Kate about adding anal sex into our lives, she reached out to our matron and found out they had already had the "the talk" too, tried it once and it was too uncomfortable. Every MHer reading this now that practices anal is chuckling, knowing the challenges/prep it typical faces. As the months passed, her husband would perk up and instantly anytime I shared anything about my loving incursions into Kate's gastrointestinal exit. Although we actually wrapped up anal lube and presented it to them as a gag gift, his last report was that they hadn't made it to a third finger and subsequent entry. They (both) have seemingly mentioned every conceivable excuse under the sun for the lack of mission success so far.
I know it isn't lack of desire on his part. He is bursting at the seems longing to get into his wife's backside. She hasn't put the brakes on anything, but I know there is some degree of apprehension. For his sake (and hopefully, in time hers too), I hope he experiences it soon. We were standing around their kitchen island a while and I said to our matron "You know, I'm starting to think you're a real party pooper when it comes to…well…your pooper." and everyone turn shades of red and had a prolonged laugh. I hope the humor and encouragement leads to something for them.
It's not just anal too, although that has been the most talked about subject. We have also showed them our sex swing that we occasionally hang up in our bedroom. Every couple months or so our church has a parents night out date night childcare service, which is amazing. I came up with the idea that they come over for the evening and we would prepare dinner while they could go upstairs to our bedroom and have a nice fucking on the sex swing, free to hop into our shower afterwards. After a nice dinner, I said Kate and I could go upstairs to have our turn while they clean up. It has half-jest and half-serious, but a little outside of their comfort zone. I will keep encouraging them and sharing in considerable detail. LOL
I'm one to recommend books, books books! MH has a great recommended reading section and I've read a lot of them, and passed on some. The Penners' books especially seem to be spot-on as far as their attitudes and suggestions and they are of course actual sex therapists. But I agree with NotMadMax that sending them to couples' therapy could be a great idea, and it's better for couples to do that sooner rather than later!
There are more resources needed. Anyone that has been in @mentor” role whether professionally or casually knows some learn from reading, some visually and some need hands on teaching. Yes, I acknowledge it is a slippery slope, but I believe churches would truly serve their people to host educational meetings. Most pre-marriage counseling delves into honor and cooperation in a marriage. We need open and honest discussions about desires, expectations and “how to”. I had a patient once who was told “he will put his thing in where you pee”. After difficulty, they tried inserting fingers to help loosen her up. She came into the ER because he had been inserting a finger (pinky) into her urethra! Is there a difference, as far as sinful or allowed; between reading about marital sex here and if there was a website showing commuters loving couples engaged in various sexual acts or positions?
I didn’t take time to read the many comments, so forgive me if this has already been stated. I advise against you trying to mentor another couple in the way you have described, e.g. demonstrating, etc. If they need that kind of help, then they should seek out some helpful videos, They don’t need church friends for that. It sounds to me that is something you are wanting to do, for your enjoyment, and theirs. I suggest you examine your motives carefully. Mostly, if they really want help, they can get it professionally. If they don’t want help, you can’t force it on them. That’s my two cents worth. I’m sorry if it is too direct.