What if We Didn’t Wait?
I was a virgin for my first marriage. But I married young. Would I have waited if I married later?
I assumed the man I fell in love with was a virgin. But what would I have done if I found out he wasn’t?
If you wait until 24, 28 even 32 and finally believe you met the right person, then found out they didn’t wait, then what? Would you call off the wedding? Feel like you waited for nothing? Always hold the fact they had sex with someone else against them?
I would think with so very few people waiting now, this is becoming a common issue.
We all fall short… in many areas of life. I grew up in a church culture that vilified sexual sins more than almost any other. So I felt a lot of pressure on virginity. In fact we use a word for that in the church: “purity.” I now feel like my upbringing was so wrong. First, if anyone believes that you are “pure” because of your good choices and lack of sinful actions, then they don’t understand the Gospel in its simplest form. Second, a marriage is built on trust, forgiveness, grace, acceptance. So I would hope that couple could address sexual sin issues Biblically… which means it’s the same way you deal with any sin (lying, lack of generosity, coarse language, selfishness). We are all imperfect, and we all desire to be loved and accepted as we are… it’s a picture of the REAL Gospel.
Thank you for offering your views. I find them heart felt and rational. A brave post.
Thankfully, I met a great wife sooner rather than later and who has been generous with her body for 25 years. I think though neither one of us would be devestated if in an alternate reality we had previous partners assuming we were open, upfront and respectful. In addition, I would hope that we would view are marriage as evidence of the Lord's redemptive work. If we kept it a secret however I think it would be upsetting and promote distrust.
Thank you.
First off SecondMarge, I wanted to let you know that I really appreciate your perspective. You challenge a lot of the pat answers that the church has hidden behind for years, and you honestly seek to find the truth. The question you raise is very valid. I remember after I went through my divorce, I met with a Christian counselor, and he asked me if I was going to have sex with the different people I would be dating now that I was single. He said a lot of the Christian people that he counseled, that were in my same situation, were deciding to have sex before marriage the second time around. Many of them had waited the first time around. This was something I had to think about and decide on. My thought process was very different then it had been with my first marriage where we were both virgins and didn’t even kiss before our wedding day. I was a lot more sexually open with the woman who would become my wife and was lucky in the fact that we started dating right after my divorce was final. I know from some of your other posts that you feel on some level that the church has been so repressive and made way too big of a deal of the sanctity of sex in marriage. Like I said earlier, I agree with challenging a lot of the church views on sex, because I don’t believe they come from the freedom and abundance that God designed sex to be but come from a need to control people and keep them in line. I do believe that true freedom and blessing in our sex lives can only come from a committed relationship like marriage. God designed sex to be fully expressed and enjoyed within the safety of marriage. We may pick up experience and tips from having a lot of partners but true intimacy is really only fostered with one person, in a protected relationship, that really allows for that person to invite the other person to open up and open up to them. Just because many people in marriages today are not experiencing this doesn’t negate God’s design. Thanks again for bringing up these awesome topics and not being satisfied with pat answers?
Thank you. I try to honestly examine my own beliefs. I believe we are afraid of sharing honesty. We gladly tell people what we think they want to hear. Yes I was a virgin. If I had it to do again I probably would have been again because I had not met anyone that I wanted to be with or wanted to be with me. Had I met the right person, knowing what I know now I would not have waited. Nor after studying the Bible do I believe Jesus would want me to. I believe the entire set of beliefs the church developed around virginity was nor what God intended. We all have to come our own conclusions. But I find most of those that preach virginity were not virgins on their wedding night.
Thanks for the kind words.
I am a virgin too, even not share a single kiss nor hug! and want to be a virgin until I celebrate my wedding night. I also want to be my girl as a virgin on that day. I waited so long for this night, to feel her first touch and making it memorable by sharing my virginity with her. About her virginity yes I want it should be! Maybe I waited so I can feel that first-time excitement, nervousness, and natural drive to consume each other. Later on, sex life becomes more and more interesting. I also thought same what if My girl is not a virgin at that time? But I can not accept this, she must be a virgin ultimately it's God who decided what is good for both of us.
I would suggest you let anyone you are going to date know your feelings about “purity” before either of you has a chance to fall in love. Second you may want to read more about what the Bible actually says. If you still have those beliefs I wish you luck finding the right person. Finding someone unkissed that is over 18 is as likely as being hit by lightning.
I am 21 years old and still a virgin. To be honest, Personally I don't want to divert my focus from my study and career. I don't share a single kiss with any girl, because I never find the right person, with whom I can fall, love, even I fall in love I hesitate to proceed further and ask her directly. Last year, I going to a rough phase, I want a girlfriend, It's disturb be till date I don't feel any intimacy and love in my life! with God blessing, Academically I am a good student and always come in the top 3 in my degree program, still, I don't have any girlfriend…I don't know the exact reason, but it bothers me a lot. I find it's difficult to control my emotions. Is there any wrong to feel in this way? This feeling distracts me it's a fact, to avoid it I thought it's better to keep this feeling aside. I wonder if I have a relationship then what I do? Deep down in my heart, I desire for sex. I talk with her and tell her what I feel, I kept penetrative sex at last. Actually I don't know myself, because I never had with any girl so it's better to say even I don't know what I really want and what is my deepest and true feelings. but what happens last year I don't want to be get driven by emotions and divert myself from my career. same time, what you choose between love and virginity? It's the love, of course, it feels great to be accepted by who we are. One thing is true that I need to be more mature and understand my need for love.
In response to SecondMarge's point, none of my friends nor I have been kissed and we are all 25. We do exist.
I understand that this has been said to manage expectations and that if the girl you've dated has kissed, that shouldn't be a dealbreaker. But just to let you know, they are out there. We are few but we exist. They're just not open about it because like the world, you're looked on as a freak if you haven't had any relationship experience by 18/21+
I know of a fellow who dated a lovely girl for a few months in college. Everyone thought they would get married. Then he found out she got drunk and had sex at a house party one night during high school, so he dumped her. I thought it was rather shallow of him. I wonder how that dumping made her feel? I know of another fellow in the exact same scenario, except he accepted her actions and decided to pursue her still. So I think it all depends on the individual and how they are raised and what their expectations are.
I've never been with another female. My wife had a few casual boyfriends, two she kissed with, one of them got to 2nd or 3rd base, and she even appeared naked briefly in front of him but nothing else. Found out years later he is gay. My wife and I "waited" to have "sex", and we were both young, started dating at 16 and aged 20 when married. I put "waited" and "sex" in quotes cause my penis never went inside of her vagina (well, at least not all the way), and we never did oral because the word "sex" follow the word "oral". Instead we would get naked, feel each other up, grind, have outer course on a regular basis for about 2 years before marriage. Basically, we justified our actions.
If we had split up and never married after all that "non-sex" I would have felt pretty worried what the next Christian girlfriend would think and react when she found out about my previous actions.
All I can say now is that if I was no longer married and back on the dating scene I would respect the woman I was with and wait till marriage to have sex. Her sexual past would only concern me in regards to STI's and any trauma or issues she may have experienced. However, I would want to talk to her big time regarding her view of sex, expectations, drive, positions, masturbation, fantasies or desires, etc. In other words, I would want to know what I am getting into sexually before sex begins in marriage.
I think what he did is so horrible. Far worse a sin than premarital sex, if that even is a sin.
I knew a woman that hid her sex history from her husband for 23 years before it ate at her too much. He was a good man and forgave her as Jesus would.
SecondMarge, I'm assuming you're talking about the guy breaking up with the girl who got drunk and had sex. Respectfully, I would be very careful about pronouncing that breakup a sin.
If he was dating in search of a marriage partner, I can understand him rejecting someone who would do that. There's a substantial element of irresponsibility in that girl's actions that is incompatible with what a good spouse should act like. Often, someone's past behavior is a fairly good indicator of how they'll be and act in the future. Of course, people can repent and grow, but you can't always count on that.
The guy very well could have been hard-hearted and refused to forgive her, which WOULD be a sin; perhaps worse than premarital sex as you said. But I would be slow to pronounce that judgement, because breaking up in that situation is not in and of itself wrong, and there could very easily be other valid explanations we don't know of.
I agree that his reaction could have been wrong, I just think we should be careful about making those kinds of judgments without knowing more than the basic details.
Hi again SecondMarge
I think your question is one that many people have on their minds, and I too had this question filter through my head a lot.
I think virginity, or the lack thereof, is the one thing that shapes the way we see people and judge them, and as another comment rightly mentioned, the church has impressed on us this way of judging people through its purity culture. I think many of us Christians have been quick to assume that someone who had sex before marriage was a loose person, while someone who kept their virginity was the holiest of the holy.
The reason why a virgin woman was so highly prized in ancient Israel was because it was the only way a man could know the children he had with her were his children. And this was important because a man's family name carried much in those days, and his children were to carry on the name.
Interestingly though, virginity is never a trait applied to men as something they aught to have, at least to my knowledge. I think if a man were commanded to be a virgin for a woman, then polygamy could not take place, which was a type of marriage permitted in the Bible for several reasons. So thus far, we know that a man in the Old Testament did not have to be sexually pure for a wife-to-be. However, virginity was a civil matter for Israel, not a moral matter, as we see that a woman who confessed that she lost her virginity before marriage was not stoned for it, but rather, the man who took her virginity had to pay her dowry and marry her. However, the father could object to the man marrying his daughter, yet the man still had to pay the dowry to the father regardless. So there may have been instances where unmarried women were no longer virgins. This would mean that it would be difficult for them to find husbands (as virginity is prized), but not impossible. However, I said this was a civil matter, and many civil laws fell away after Jesus' work on earth. We know the moral laws still apply, but we never see virginity as having a direct attachment to morality. At least this is what I've found.
So now, back to your question: would there be strife if the person you met was not a virgin?
Well, it all depends on one's outlook and the other person. Does the other person sleep around? If so, would this not be the bigger problem then their virginity? Or, does the person only have sex if they're emotionally connected and committed to that person? Virginity is never an indicator of future fidelity in marriage, so I think it's more important how this person views sex as a whole.
And then, one must ask themselves: "Why am I keeping my virginity?" Is it out of selfless love, or is it out of vain self-righteousness? Only God can make us righteous and He has indeed done that on the Cross.
So can you selflessly keep it knowing it may not be kept for you?
I don't think it's a waste to keep your virginity even if the other doesn't. The reason I say that is because if you feel that you're following God's will for your life by keeping it, then it is only but gain for you.
I think though it's far more important that one's partner has a healthy view of sex, and a committed attitude towards you that leads to marriage. And I don't think virginity is the biggest gift one can give their partner. I think loyalty, patience, forgiveness, service, perseverance and ultimately, love, are the best "gifts" one could give their partner every day.
I hope this helps, and please put everything into prayer.
Kind regards,
southernmost
Another deep, thought provoking post SecondMarge, thank you. And to everyone who posted, lots of love, grace and warm heartedness here.
Personally, we think it’s best to wait. Many of our friends waited and said it’s one of the best decisions they ever made. And on the other hand, many of our friends didn’t wait and have strong marriages and sex lives. Many have said they wish they waited, but succumbed to their desires for one another.
We are all fallen, we are all weak. Sin is sin, whether it’s sexual, greed, theft, envy, lying, judging others, etc. Is one sin worse than other?
No, one sin is not worse than the other.
We didn’t go to our wedding bed as virgins, we were with others before we met. And once we were dating, we gave in and didn’t wait. Wish we did but we crossed that bridge long ago. Time marches on. For many reasons, sexually transmitted diseases not being the least of which, we feel it’s better to wait. But if a couple doesn’t wait, it’s not the “unforgivable” sin, and your marriage bed isn’t forever stained.
As shared earlier in this thread—marital love, patience, sacrifice, grace, forgiveness, communication, etc ultimately are more important than our sexy lives.
However, we are forever thankful for the gift of marital sex, such a mysteriously wonderful gift from above!
We appreciate your tender heart SecondMarge…
LadyGarden
The question is one that I have also wondered about. Both my wife and I were virgins at 25 when we found each other and eventually married. We found that we had a great deal of passion for each other but were committed to wait until vows were spoken. At that time in my life, if she had experienced sex I would have likely moved on looking for another “pure” individual. As I have come to understand better the redemptive power of Christ, I now look at that perspective as mistaken. What a wonderfully fulfilling life I would have missed out on. I look to the dream of Peter in regards to taking the Gospel to the Gentiles where he sees a vessel filled with clean and unclean foods in regards to the law of Moses. He refuses to eat the unclean foods, but is rebuked. Acts reports that a voice came from heaven saying that what “God hath cleansed that call not thou common” (or unclean). I believe if someone has been redeemed through Christ and repented of sin, they are again pure. Would I have been mature enough at 25 to accept another who had chosen that particular sin at some point? As a friend, without question. As a spouse, I would hope so, but maybe not. I certainly would now though. The commitment to Christ and the character required to turn from sin is far more important to me now than it was at 25.
I suppose one could make an argument for two 18 year old virgins waiting. But if you are divorced or a widow(er) I see zero reason to wait. Once you have gotten to the point where marriage is in the cards it makes more sense not to wait. Not advocating any path for others. I am certainly not suggesting hooking up with everyone you date. But if you have both been married before.
Good straightforward practical points, Penny4URthoughts.
LadyGarden
May I ask how you come to that conclusion? How is it different if two 18-year-olds, two 30-year-olds, or two widowed 60-year-olds are the ones in question? The Bible never indicates that the standard changes for those situations. I believe it remains the case that sex is meant to be inside of marriage, and nowhere else.
What's the logic behind that idea? (Not a full thesis on it, just the basic biblically-based reasoning.)
In the same spirit of “not advocating any path for others,” I recently had this conversation with the Mrs. We concluded that waiting seems to make more sense for a first marriage, but not as important after that. She gave me explicit permission, if she dies unexpectedly, to have intercourse with anyone I’m dating. I gave her the same permission. I don’t hope either of us have to go through that, but the conversation was open and refreshing.
In response to the first point, for me, they wouldn't be the right person if I found out they didn't wait.There would be no wedding to call off because I would make sure to ask about this early on enough so that it doesn't get to that stage.
When I was younger (16 – 21), a guy's virginity was less important to me. It was just important that he was willing to wait until we were married to have sex. Now that I'm 25, it's become more important to me (to the point that it's a deal breaker) that they have waited. In this day and age and society that we live in, it says a lot about a person to be that they have made an active decision to wait until they are married. A majority of Christians have pre-marital sex. This shows that just because the bible says they should wait, it's clearly not a good enough reason. Especially as I know non-Christians who have also not had pre-marital sex
This has suggested to me that religion has very little to do with waiting anymore. To me, it make sense to wait. Risks of STIs, pregnancy and the pain that comes with breaking up with a person that you've had sex with are all reasons why I wouldn't want to have sex before I'm married. Not just because, the bible tells you so. To me, the fact that a person would risk that doesn't seem smart to me and isn't a quality I would want in a future husband which is why I would conclude that they aren't the right person for me.
I think if a person being a virgin is a quality you want in a spouse (this is of course not including things like rape and abuse in terms of the virginity definition), you need to mention it early. I try and find out before any feelings develop. All of times I've talked to guys who have professed to be Christians, they haven't ever regretted having sex before marriage and they don't see it as a big deal. The one time that a guy did show some remorse (we had become friends), he shared a post that pretty much made fun of virgins. These negative experiences have brought me to the conclusion that although a non-virgin may respect your decision to wait, the decision isn't highly valued at all. If I was to date a guy like that, it would definitely feel like I've waited for nothing should we get married.
Furthermore, I think deep down, a person knows if they would possibly hold the fact that they've had sex with someone else against them. I am one of those people. I don't think I could get over it which is why I wouldn't date someone who hasn't waited. However, it's very common for Christians to say that a virgin shouldn't hold a person's sexual history against them which means that the virgin is often questioning why they are waiting in the first place. I don't think people should be forced to "get over" it if they know they can't and instead should be encouraged to look for someone like them i.e. another virgin.
Good questions! This is a very thought-provoking discussion. I've wondered things like this myself from time to time, so thank you for giving me the opportunity to write my thoughts out in a more organized way!
1) What would I do if I found out, during the course of our relationship, that she wasn't a virgin?
When I'm in a relationship with a woman I'm considering marrying, I'm going to avoid as many assumptions as possible in every important area, including sex. I plan to ask her very directly about her sexual history, and I'm going to be very clear about mine (once the relationship is mature enough to handle discussions like that). If in the course of these discussions I found out she was not a virgin, it would definitely hurt me. It would probably change some things in my mind, as well as my view of her, but I think I could still learn to accept it and see her as the sinful but redeemed daughter of God that she is. If she'd had sex recently, then regardless of the stage of our relationship, things would probably be delayed as we worked through it. But if it was many years ago, though it would still hurt, it probably wouldn't set us back too much.
Whatever the case is, it's not the sins committed, but rather the attitude toward them that would matter most to me. Whether it happened a long time ago or recently, if she's truly repentant and I have good reason to trust her again, I think we'd be able to move forward. Of course, I can't say for sure without being in that situation.
2) Would I call off the wedding?
If the wedding was already planned when I found out, I might delay it or put it on hold while we worked through it. I think it would take something truly extreme to call it off entirely. There are so many factors it's hard to say for sure what I'd do.
3) Would I feel like I waited for nothing?
I would probably feel like my own effort in waiting wasn't honored, but it still wouldn't be for nothing. I would still want to strive for the ideal even if she didn't make the same effort for me.
4) Would I always hold it against her?
It would probably change things and add strain to our relationship, perhaps for a very long time, but I pray that by God's grace I would have the ability to fully forgive and accept her. If we're both committed to working it out, I believe we would still be able to have a thriving and deeply intimate relationship by God's restoring power.
Like PatientPassion I think the Lord's intent is for sex to be saved for the marriage bed because it creates a oneness that unique from other relational connections and is reflective of the oneness that exists in the Trinity.
So I can’t have “oneness” with my husband because I am a widow?
God wanted sex in marriage so 13-year-old girls that were pregnant had a husband to protect and provide for them.
God wanted the female to be a virgin woman of child bearing age, in other words past puberty, when she had sex.
It was to prevent having sex with children. Once of child bearing age, they were married off and expected to start having children.
To equate that to today’s society is, well, illogical. Just like we don’t approve of 13-year-old girls marrying and having children, we should not think a 25 year old should refrain from sex.
SecondMarge, I'm not sure what you mean about not being able to experience "oneness" with your husband because you're a widow. The New Testament makes clear that widows are allowed (and sometimes even encouraged) to remarry (and presumably have sex with their new husbands).
You points on virginity seems very valid. However, just because SOME of the reasons for keeping sex in marriage no longer seem to be as necessary, that doesn't mean the biblical requirement is outdated completely. There are many reasons beyond those that I don't believe change no matter how different our society becomes. God designed things the way he did for a reason, and I don't think his design ever becomes obsolete.
Second Marge
I respectfully disagree. When I read the passages of scripture referring to sexual relations, sex in marriage is celebrated and encouraged but sex outside of marriage is not. I see this both in the Old and New Testaments so I think any positive or negative command in the NT stands.
On the specific topic of widows and widowers, the NT specifically says they are free to remarry and enjoy sexual freedom with their new husband or wife.
Do you see any NT scripture that gives blessing to sex outside of marriage?