There and Gone – A Discussion Question
The church service having ended, people begin milling around. Young parents rush to pick up their toddlers from child care. Perhaps some are hurrying off to lunch, others hoping to the catch the attention of a dear friend they haven’t see over the summer. I keep my eyes down at first, careful to not trip over the small children that are scampering about, weaving left and right through the “big people” obstacles. Then my eyes come up to navigate through the ever-changing maze of exiting worshippers.
Off to the right I notice a friend I haven’t seen for several weeks. I greet him with a cheery “Good morning. How are you,” and keep moving through the crowd.
I turn my head back to look straight ahead. As a tall man passes by on my left, a forty something woman comes into view. She is quite attractive – I like her hairstyle, she has a nice smile, and a trim, fit body.
In the second or two it takes for us to pass each other, my eyes focused on her chest. Her breasts were perfectly sized. Perfectly shaped. Perfectly displayed—probably more revealingly than some would consider appropriate for church.
She and they came and went in the blink of an eye. The beginnings of an erection came and went as fast as the cause vanished from my view.
A question prodded at my mind: Did lust exist in that moment? Simply because the brain popped out the word “perfect?” Or queried, “perfect for what?”
I thought of a friend of mine who would feel extremely awkward at such a situation. He would instantly try to erase the memory from his mind, then look for a trusted female friend to tell the woman to cover up. Really. I’m not exaggerating. If he knew I was thinking, “Wow, nice breasts,” I’m pretty sure he would sit me down and pronounce judgement.
On to the discussion question: What do you think is an appropriate way to act in a situation like this, and why? How do you feel about the two different reactions in the scene (mine and my friend’s)?
There's a college gal who sings in the choir. On two occasions she's worn holey jeans (not Holy like blessed but with actual holes in them) and then a top that showed off her cleavage. The preacher got after her twice about her choice of clothing up there. I wasn't there either time to witness this lacivious display of flesh but heard about it after.
This is a small very conservative Church. People notice everything. I have seen the young ladies wear their short dresses showing way too much leg for Church and I suppose she is one of those I have seen before. Did this ever bother me? No. They are too young for me to think about in that way. If these gals are looking for a man, they should probably go to another church with younger single men is what I think. This post makes me think that maybe the preacher is having lustful thoughts and is afraid he'll get a boner while preaching the gospel. Ha ha. I hope not.
There are occasions where I notice a woman's shape and begin to envision her naked.Lustful thoughts start at that moment. I cast them out and move on. I don't need someone else to run off the thoughts and scold the women to cover up.
Lust can quickly turn into temptation. If a woman's shape is pleasing to the eye, then admire her beauty in a no lustful way, cast the lustful thoughts away from her, and then onto your lady. If you have no lady, learn how to talk to them, win them over, and marry one.
There is nothing wrong with noticing and being attracted to someone physically. In my opinion it is no different than noticing that someone's smile, eyes or hair. Unless you keep staring with a desirous intent, I don't see how it could be considered lust.
I used to struggle with this same thing and constantly beat myself up over it. Instead of guilt and shame, try to think in terms of gratitude that God made women to be so amazing. The guilt and shame draws you into yourself and cuts you off from other people, but gratitude and amazement opens you up to God and our shared humanity.
If a reaction to an attractive woman with a passing glance results in a thought and physical and response; then all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
A thought isn’t a sin. Temptation isn’t a sin. Working on a thought leading to temptation then to lust resulting in action is a sin. Where does the sin occur on that path? Only God knows. “For him that knows it is sin, it is sin.” Certainly, acting on lustful temptation is a sin.
Experiencing a visceral response to an attractive woman isn’t a sin. Its a God created, biological, natural response How can what God created be a sin if we remain honorable?
In order to sin, free will has to be a component. The random thoughts or responses, even a hard-on, a little wetness, or erect nipples don’t reach being sinful unless the conscious choice to feed those thoughts or responses takes place. Temptation by itself is not sinful unless we let ourselves accept and enjoy the temptation.
It’s hard not fall into temptation, sexual temptation is the hardest to resist, I think. My wife and I frequent clothing optional venues. We see nude men and women all the time, many of them quite fit, as are we. How much are we contributing to someone’s temptations in those circumstances, or does it matter since they control their own impulses? We say it’s about freedom and it is, but there is an unspoken sexuality about it too. I read the stories and discussions here, many of them extremely sexual and graphic, many get my cock hard. A person might argue that I am exposing myself to temptation unnecessarily and maybe they would be right. (I don’t run into sexual temptations mowing the lawn).
I cannot claim that I have never let a stray thought get out of hand. Has an attractive female we met on a nude beach ever fueled some late-night masturbation? Sure, I’m only a sexually wired human after all. But I have also resisted those urges, it’s not hard to know the difference.
And I would argue that masturbating to the thought of a sexy nude lady from the beach is also not sinful. It’s a way to “hold your thought captive” (i.e. to yourself) and not doing the REAL action of sleeping with someone else. We should never grieve our sexual fire, as that very much was intentionally given to us by God. And we can honor him by exploring that desire in healthy ways.
I don't think that a couple seconds make too much of a difference, for what sounds to me like a pretty normal biological reaction. Of course what I don't remember is, are you married? Is she? How much are you dwelling on this? In my study of "Lust" in its Biblical usage (as helped along by stories and comments I've read here), it seems to be much more of a fixation on possessing something, whether it be an object or a woman, and in an inordinate way, that belongs to another. And it doesn't sound to me like that fits here one way or the other, and you weren't staring or drooling or anything that would make her uncomfortable, from what I understand?
There is such a thing as the parasympathetic nervous system. I wouldn’t read too much into it. That said, life has a way of training us, much like a good martial arts instructor.
There are situations my body would have responded to as a young man, that they simply won’t anymore, not because of aging or health, but because I’ve been in far too many situations where getting aroused would be extremely undesirable. So my body learned to compartmentalize arousal. I know that’s not everyone though. But when you have female incarcerated and or mental patients TRYING to visually arouse you to gain some sort of sense of control over you, you learn fast!
Lots of good answers here. It IS possible to appreciate beauty without choosing to act inappropriately. The human body n soul are the ultimate beauty in the universe. We notice outward beauty easily but true beauty is in the soul.
I draw nudes from art sites occasionally and I can appreciate their beauty without choosing to lust.
It is easy to see lots of physical beauty in the college town where we live. Yes I’ll notice. My wife n I both notice attractive women and men. And we comment to each other about it.
After an overseas vacation I wrote up an experience we had where we met a very attractive young couple. I knew their language so we got to know them. They were in skimpy swimwear.
Watching them at the pool n by the pool was fun. The gal posed as her man took sexy photos. When we got back to our resort room my wife n I couldn’t keep our hands off each other n we had a very memorable lovemaking session! So we targeted our sexual feelings towards each other. My wife STILL will do some of those sexy poses for me occasionally right before sex. We owe that couple big time!
That's awesome LM. I've taught life drawing for years and it has never been sexual, the depiction of a believable, dynamic human form is difficult enough. My wife has often posed for me nude and costumed, for drawing and painting but I'll admit I don't mind it when she wants to take a break.
All I can tell you is Jim and I both are quite observant when it comes to checking out men and women. It would not e at all rare for Jim to point out a beautiful woman approaching and whispering "Would you get a load of this woman's rack!" But he would always add, at some point, nice, utility your 36-dds eat the hell out of hers…."In fact, How's about we get home fast so I can get a closer, maybe shoot a load over them."
I am also encouraged to point out a nice-size crotch bulge when I see one, he loves knowing I have "cock on the brain," as it makes both of us horny.
Just being honest here …
We both do the same thing CP. My wife will point out an attractive man (she's a fool for good abs, among other things) and I'll point out a woman I find attractive and why I think she is (I love a nice firm ass). On nude beaches there isn't much left to the imagination. It can get us pretty horny. There is no one like the one you're with of course and those observations lead to what we find both find desirable in one another which often leads to some great sex…
That sounds like a great way to deal with the situation, and think a great example for the rest of us!
That is what I wish more couples were comfortable and confident in each other enough to do. It's how I would want to be with my future husband. Instead of worrying that his eyes were straying or I wasn't attractive enough, I'd rather we both be so secure in our love for each other that we can transparently admire others and then turn any resulting arousal back into our own relationship. Marriages could be so much stronger that way. I love how you and your husband and a number of other couples on this site practice that!
Our bodies are “wonderfully made”-Psalm 139.14. Our bodies often respond to various stimuli automatically, without our mental assent. We are all created with some degree of sexual desire. Our bodies respond to visual, tactile, aural, olfactory and the sense of taste, sometimes without our thought of what is happening.
I once was at a gathering of students and was greeted by a young woman who was a friend of mine. We hugged in a non intimate way, as friends often do. I caught a strong, but pleasant scent of her pheromones and immediately felt my penis start to swell with arousal. There has been no thought of any sexual nature, yet I started to get hard. Fortunately it calmed quickly. The next day, at church, I was greeted by this same woman with a casual hug and again I caught the scent of her body and my penis started started to harden. Again, no sexual thought or intent. Just bodily reaction to stimuli.
There was no sexual thought or behavior by either of us (other than the innocent response of my body).
I was once a member of a nudist club and lived at the park four days a week. I had the pleasure to see the beauty of the human form in all shapes and sizes in all of our naked glory. Breasts, butts, vulvas, and penises. I thoroughly enjoyed looking at this display of God’s great creations without any sin.
We all have choices for where we allow our mind to go.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with looking as long as the observation, thought, or arousal doesn’t become a desire to have that person for yourself.
Admiration is different than coveting. If you had thought more about seeing her breast in some type of tryst, that would be bad. But by just admiring her beautiful figure, and that’s as far as it went, then I believe you’re okay.
Great questions. Thanks for asking.
That situation happens often. Once in the very famous NYC Cathedral, where they allow the public to tour while services are going on, my daughter & I came around a blind corner. I was a few steps behind & come around the corner to see a very voluptuous woman sitting listening to the service displaying an ample amount of very nice looking cleavage. It was apparent that she was on display, on purpose. As quickly as I came around the corner, I noticed, but did not look directly at her tits. I enjoyed what I did see, just with peripheral vision. I was walking quickly, & was able to avert my eyes.
That is my reaction to such situations. I am not comfortable noticing when the woman can catch me doing so. I don't want to be that guy. I have a church, a wife, & a God to respect. Let alone, the person at hand. However, I will drink in a view if it presents itself & there is no chance of making anyone uncomfortable. I will steal glances if in close proximity, or in conversation, with the woman, too, if her attention is distracted from looking at me. I am even conscious of other people catching me noticing her, like in a crowded room.
Me being pro sex, & having trained myself since kindergarten to look at any chance I get, I understand the desire to see as much nudity as I can. But, also being raised in the church, I have a healthy respect that I don't draw attention by looking at a woman's breasts, crotch, or figure when it has any chance of being thought of as inappropriate. But, yes, I do catch myself, occasionally, glancing at her chest while she is looking right into my eyes. I feel awkward about those times.
I do not judge your viewing, as you did. And, I would say your friend would be in the wrong for any chastising of you he did. However, I would try my best to just make eye contact, only, when faces are pointed at each other.