Wife rejects husband's advances. What to do?

How to Manage Mismatched Libido’s?

I’ll try to keep this to the point. My wife and I are 23 and have been married for a little under 2 years. This last year has been really difficult for us. She was on birth control but has since gotten off of it, and her libido remains very low. I feel like I’m getting rejected all the time because I have a fairly high libido.

How do couples work through this? It’s been really challenging, and there are several times (including now while I’m writing this) where I just want to give up and stop initiating and see how that feels for her.

We have sex maybe once a month now, and unfortunately, I’ve been making up for it with porn, which she doesn’t know about. I want to tell her about it, but it would crush her. (She has told me before that porn is equal to cheating for her.) I don’t really know what to do. I want to stop watching porn and enjoy our sex life, but it just hasn’t been working. We’ve argued/talked about it a lot, and she seems genuinely sorry and sad about it. She said it was the BC, but she’s been off of that for a while and nothing has changed.

I’m not blaming anything on her, I just don’t know what to try next. I’m feeling really defeated.

Also of note: we moved to the area where we live now in November and are just now finding a church (today was the first time going), so we haven’t built any close church relationships with anyone to turn to for advice yet.

Thank you for the help.

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33 replies
  1. Always Horny says:

    Hey bro, I feel for you man. I’ve lived this same scenario & it’s not easy. Dude, my encouragement to you is to go & see a Counsellor or Psychologist on your own. You need help with the accountability for quitting porn.

    As you said, your wife considers it as “cheating”, so when you come clean (which I believe you should), the timing is going to be important, or she could walk on you bro, for real—specially if you just moved, & there’s no support system around.

    And if you have already gotten yourself into accountability & talking these things through with an objective source, it’s going to show that you’re taking responsibility for your sexuality, behaviours, & want to change.

    Your wife could be facing a bunch of things internally, like still new in marriage, her feeling like she has a purpose or isn’t sure about things in her life, could be things in her past that she hasn’t ever broken down & worked through… Do you guys connect emotionally? Emotional intimacy is huge for women, especially when women feel safe, loved, heard they feel closeness you feel me?

    But for real bro, porn kills marriages. It shrinks your brain, it consumes your time, it creates artificial reenactment instead of relational intimacy with your spouse.

    But more sex isn’t going to fix these other issues you’re both facing. You’re going to both need help navigating through it to find the Gold in your relationship over time.

    Trust me, you don’t want to lose your bride. I lost mine due to a lot more things at play; my wife ended up cheating & divorcing me. But I felt what you felt, lonely, horny & looking for intimacy & I turned back to porn at the times I felt rejected.

    So I implore you, do all you can bro, get real with Jesus & your relationship with him, pursue that counseling, and tell trusted males about your struggles, so they can walk with you through it. See that psychologist 🙏🏻

    Trust me you, bro, you don’t want the pain of separation & divorce. And just because you’re both Christians doesn’t make you immune to it.

    I’ll pray for you, man, & your wife, that the power of God would lead you both to truth & that grace would be sufficient for you both as you walk through it together. Fight for it, man, it’s worth it all.

  2. Fearless Lunk says:

    This is our story too. My wife had a medium-to-high libido before marriage. We loved making out and it took some effort to “keep it in our pants.” And then right when we got married her libido dropped to low. Neither of us totally understood why. We think BC pills played a big factor, but her libido did not bounce back after being on the pill for just shy of 2 years. I think their are a couple other factors at play in our situation. But dude, I can so relate to those feelings of rejection and distance in our marriage. There is no easy answer. We just celebrated our 20th anniversary. We have had many difficult conversations thru the years and are in a place where we better understand each other. I do think that the low libido may be a hormonal shift, but my wife refuses to get medically checked out. My 3 pieces of advice would be, try to find resources to show your wife to help her understand the sexual needs of the high drive male, possibly try to get on a schedule – even if you had at least one “sex day” a week that you both committed to, and see if she’ll get her hormone levels checked by a physician.

  3. Nathaniel says:

    Perhaps start with having her get her hormones level checked.
    At 23, you both should be all over each other. Her included. To only be married that long and not want to constantly do things is not normal.
    Yes, after a few years it can be less frequent, but the desire should always be there.
    Sex is also a mind decision. It's something you have to train yourself to want and to give. Yes there may be times of not being able to due to health reasons, but both partners should always be willing to take care of the others needs. That is each of your responsibility. And it's not always the man's job to start something. If there is zero interest from one person then there is probably deeper things going on. Good luck……

    • advice37 says:

      She has had her hormones check and everything seems to be normal according to the doc. However, they only did a thyroid panel and I didn't see anything about estrogen on there.

  4. LuvBug says:

    Hey man, I get where you're coming from. The wife and I went through a similar rough patch about 2-3 years into our marriage.

    I would start out with working on your relationship. I once heard it said that marriage is like a plant and sex is the flower. If the plant isn't healthy or getting what it needs, the flower will wilt. So romance her! Take her on dates, spend some quality time with her, surprise her with something nice. Be affectionate and touch her (without trying to be sexual, like holding her hand while you walk, putting an arm over her shoulder on the couch). You know what she likes!

    Ditch the porn! It will only cause problems, especially if she feels that strongly about it. When you masturbate, try just imagining her (unless the two of you have some private photos). After using porn for a while, it can be tough to masturbate without visuals, but the brain is the best sex organ.

    For actual sex, try this: talk with her about having one day a week as "sex day." Pick one day a week that you both agree to have sex and set aside that evening for each other. That way, she won't be annoyed by your "constant" asking, and you won't have to deal with constant rejection. And if she knows it is coming, then she can do what she needs to prepare and "get in the mood."

    Marriage is a journey, and not always an easy one. May God bless you and help you through!

    • advice37 says:

      " I once heard it said that marriage is like a plant and sex is the flower. If the plant isn't healthy or getting what it needs, the flower will wilt. So romance her! Take her on dates, spend some quality time with her, surprise her with something nice. Be affectionate and touch her (without trying to be sexual, like holding her hand while you walk, putting an arm over her shoulder on the couch). You know what she likes!"

      That is a great idea! I love the analogy.

  5. still_learning says:

    Dear friend,

    Your question shows you care deeply. You seem discouraged and lonely in marriage. Now the porn seems to be a trap where you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Take this as a wonderful opportunity to grow into your marriage. Your discomfort is calling for you to change for the better. Your marriage is not broken but rather doing its job and inviting you to improve. This is very common! One of the best effects of marriage is that it demands we grow into better people. You will need to address the lack of honesty you mentioned with your wife, but first, address it in yourself. Be kind and truthful to yourself. There is absolutely a joyful outcome to your situation, and I hope you find it.

    For some ideas see the YouTube video "Overcoming Unwanted Pornography Use", mostly minutes 7-41. It may be simple but not necessarily easy, and definitely worth it. Once you understand yourself more it will be easier to reach out to her, love her, and be close like you want.

    P.S. There are lots of good health responses to your question out on the internet. Don't settle for anything less than healing and nourishing your marriage. You are on the verge of something that can be amazingly wonderful!

  6. PatientPassion says:

    I'm sorry you're dealing with this, but thank you for reaching out for help instead of wallowing alone. There is healing in Christian community, and Satan hates when we support with other believers! Way to stick it in his eye! I pray for your encouragement, and for God to work in your lives—individually and together—to grow you as people and to build the beautiful relationship that a marriage is supposed to be.

    You said you've talked to her about it a lot. What has been the outcome of those discussions? Are you confident that she understands how you feel when sex is so infrequent? Does she offer any other explanation for why her drive might be so low? You said you don't know what to try next. What HAVE you tried? Have you tried implementing any solutions like scheduling regular sex, or addressing potential medical issues or excessive busyness/stress that could be subduing her drive? Is she willing to take any action on this issue?

    I'm sure you already know this, but the porn is only going to bring destruction. Some damage has already been done, but there's more to come if you don't stop. Getting rid of that needs to be a top priority. That's a bigger practical, spiritual and relational issue than frequency of sex or her libido. (I don't have experience counseling people on how to get out of porn use, but I know there are lots of great resources out there, both secular and biblical. Just make the effort to look!) Once that is being actively and successfully addressed, and your relationship begins to heal from that, you can more successfully address the libido issue. But if you have an infection or tumor (porn), that has to be addressed before any other issues are going to heal properly.

    But wouldn't it help you quit porn if you could get your drive satisfied with your wife more often? Sure, that's even a biblical concept from 1 Corinthians 7:5: "Do not deprive one another… so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control." But I discourage using this message to motivate your wife. A very large-scale survey of women done for a Christian book called The Great Sex Rescue indicated (if I remember correctly) that this teaching only tended to decrease a wife's libido. It's no real wonder either. "Have sex with your husband more or he'll start sinning" isn't a very sexy message at all. Sex is supposed to be a beautiful union, and instead, that message minimizes it to be little more than a self-control crutch. So while it's a biblical truth, it's only PART of the truth, and it can't be used alone or it will just sound icky. If it's used at all, it definitely needs to be paired with other biblical messages about the beautiful nature and importance of regular sex in marriage. (It can come across sounding like "have sex with me so I don't use porn." Instead, the attitude needs to sound more like this: "I want to share God's beautiful gift of sex with you more often so I'm reminded how precious it is, how precious you are, and how empty porn is so I never want it again.")

    For a practical approach to libido mismatches, try reading about the differences between spontaneous and responsive desire with your wife. (There's a great post about this on the Uncovering Intimacy blog, a biblically-based resource.) Here's a summary of the concept: some people have thoughts about sex "spontaneously," and others more often need a certain trigger to have sexual thoughts and arousal. If your wife doesn't initiate or pursue sex with you, but she still enjoys sex on the infrequent occasions you have it, there's a good chance she has a responsive-leaning kind of desire rather than a spontaneous one. That doesn't mean she's broken. It's actually pretty normal. You both just have to learn how to work with it in your marriage. A key part of that for her is overcoming the misconception that she has to be "in the mood" already BEFORE starting any kind of sexual encounter. But if you have little to no "spontaneous" desire, that rarely happens! So she would have to learn that, if sex is going to happen as often as it should in a healthy marriage, sometimes an encounter needs to start at a time when she doesn't necessarily feel like it! (It would help to start slowly and incorporate lots of soft foreplay so she doesn't feel rushed.) It would also probably help a lot if she could recognize that she likely WILL feel like it very shortly after it starts, even if she doesn't at the very beginning. (That's assuming that fits the fact pattern in your sex life. If she doesn't actually ever get into it, there may be a different cause, like a medical issue, chronic stress or limiting beliefs that need to be addressed.) If she's truly sorry and dissatisfied with the situation and wants it to change so you two have more frequent sex, hopefully she'll be willing to explore this idea and give it a try.

    But again, as a warning, I wouldn't expect ANY solution to work very well while the porn issue is still ongoing, or even in the short-term past. I won't sugar-coat it—some healing from that will probably need to take place in your hearts individually and in your relationship before the sex issues can improve more dramatically. Porn use may or may not be "equal to cheating" like she feels, but it IS a form of betrayal. That betrayal will have to be worked through and healed before any positive, significant and lasting changes can be made. There is hope though! Progress will just take time. There's a reason patience and steadfastness are prized virtues in the Bible! And of course, with repentance and faith in Christ, any sin can be forgiven.

    Again, I'm praying for you brother!

    • advice37 says:

      The outcome of the discussions was at the beginning a lot of tears and arguments. It has gotten better as time has gone on. She is putting in more effort to satisfy my needs outside of PIV. However, she still says she doesn't really feel horny much.

      She has had her hormone levels checked and everything is in the normal ranges from what the doc said (she saw an endocrinologist).

      We have identified between ourselves that we both feel a lack of emotional intimacy in our relationship since we moved to this new place, but we can't figure out a cause or a solution. I got stationed here so no option to move back, but we can't figure out why it started when we moved here.

      Good to know about the spontaneous vs responsive desires. I will research that more and may bring it up to her.

      Yes, I have been working between the Lord and me on quitting porn. It has been difficult but Christ has given me strength and hope. I plan to tell my wife about the porn use, but not for a few more weeks. I want to be able to show her I've been working on it. Also, I'm having a routine surgery this week and even though it's routine, in the very very slim chance that something happens, I don't want to burden her with the knowledge that I was watching porn behind her back if I was to die. I think it would be better for her to just have as much peace as possible at that point. Once I'm recovered I fully intend to open up to her about it.

      Thank you for your reply and prayers

  7. King Arthur says:

    I know EXACTLY how you feel. (Except we've been married 42 years. ) My wife's sex drive is extremely low and mine is very high. I make up the difference with porn. I've tried to stop but no success. I've gone through CR but no success. Part of my addiction (Now heavy use) was caused by childhood sexual abuse.

    Same here, we only have sex about once a month and my use of porn is considered "cheating" by her. She doesn't know about most of what I do.

    My advice is to work through some kind of 12 step program – Celebrate Recovery; or you may try Counseling – Christian Sex Therapist – lots of prayer by both of you. And, you have to WANT to quit. I, unfortunately, don't know that I did or still do. I like it because it meets my needs. (But that is another issue.)

    Hang it there. 🙂

  8. MonsterCock23 says:

    23 y/o's having sex once a month is really unusual… I'm 23 single and a virgin so I don't have expert advice except the issue could be emotional. I'd communicate and figure out what the issue is. Is she upset with you? Is she seeing someone else? Once a month is NOT normal, 23 is nearly a teenager still… I'd be going at it like 5x a day if I was deeply in love with someone and married to them…

  9. JuicyForMyMan says:

    I have a couple of ideas for you:
    1. Be sure you know her love language, what makes her feel loved. Then, use that to keep her tank full. Her feeling loved, beautiful and cherished will go a long way in many instances.
    2. It can take awhile to get things back in the correct balance after going off birth control. Has she had her hormone levels checked by a doctor? Maybe there is something that can be done medically to help.

  10. RMD says:

    That is a difficult problem, but it is very solvable with the help of a counselor. Mismatched libidos are common, but there may be other reasons for lack of desire that a counselor can help with. The easy ways to find a good counselor are to call your insurance customer service number on the back of your card and ask for a list of providers in your area, then call and talk to several. You can also look at Psychology Today Listings, put in your zip code, and all the counselors vetted by them in your area will come us with a great deal of information on each. This needs to be solved soon, and speaking as a counselor, I run into this very often, and it is solvable. Don't despair! If she won't go, then go yourself. There is much you can get help with to help her.

  11. Josh says:

    I have been reading the stories for years but created an account to reply to you.

    Please pray first, and then tell her about your porn use without making any excuses. I have confessed porn use – I know it is scary and that she will be hurt and need to time to grieve, but her trust in you should not be based on ignorance of what you are doing.

    You need habits that keep you away from porn. Something that worked for me was letting my wife know that I was keeping a calendar where I drew a heart on the day if I didn't look at porn – it might seem like a small reward compared to the lure of porn, but it helped. Also, I think my wife was reassured to know that porn's hold on me wasn't so tight that this kind of thing didn't work.

    To have more sex, maybe your wife doesn't want sex because of some problem (ex: she isn't getting enough sleep, other aspects of your relationship are distant, something about the sex you have is painful or irritating…). If so, deal with the problem, whatever it is. But maybe it is just because of who she is – my wife didn't have the same kind of sexual desire after about a year of marriage despite generally enjoying sex when we have it. If she enjoys sex but doesn't desire it, I recommend that your wife remember what she did that gave her pleasure in the past (or experiment to find what brings her pleasure – and not just what she does during sex, but also before, even hours before) and then get into the habit of doing these things that she enjoys and that turn her on. Using habits to turn yourself on might seem alien, but good habits are powerful. However, please start with confessing your porn use, and then give her at least a few weeks.

    I will be praying for you.

    • advice37 says:

      Thank you for creating an account to reply. I have been working between the Lord and me on quitting porn. It has been difficult but Christ has given me strength and hope. I plan to tell my wife about the porn use, but not for a few more weeks. I want to be able to show her I've been working on it. Also, I'm having a routine surgery this week and even though it's routine, in the very very slim chance that something happens, I don't want to burden her with the knowledge that I was watching porn behind her back if I was to die. I think it would be better for her to just have as much peace as possible at that point. Once I'm recovered I fully intend to open up to her about it.

    • advice37 says:

      Josh, the surgery went well. I’m recovering very well so far. No sex for awhile though since it was an inguinal hernia surgery.

  12. CrazyHappyLoved says:

    Many people are unaware that there are studies showing that hormonal forms of birth control can alter a woman's libido *for life*! WebMD, in their article "Less Sexual Desire After the Pill?" references a 2006 study out of Boston University Medical Center to the effect, as do the doctors I mention below. One of the study authors is editor-in-chief of the Journal of Sexual Medicine, so hopefully, they know what they're talking about.

    This is not to discourage you. In researching an answer to your question, I found a woman named Alisa Vitti who has a site she calls Floliving and a book called WomanCode where she advises women on optimal hormonal and adrenal balance for a vibrant life, including their sex life. I can't vouch for the advice; I haven't read the book or any but the one article called "Get your sex drive back after stopping the Pill", but it helped me to know that this isn't a strange result after hormonal contraception use. (Also, her site is not specifically for Christians, so expect a lot of "my boyfriend/girlfriend…" in the comments.) Just the paragraph on supplements that support the adrenal glands makes the article worth the read, in my book.

    Another source is Dr. Joleen Brighton who calls in Post Birth Control Syndrom (PBCS) and has her own protocols to help reverse it.

    Hope this helps. ❤

    • advice37 says:

      I have read about potential life long libido issues from taking BC. Thank you for the resources and I will dive into them and see if there's anything we can do on top of what we're already doing.

  13. tolu says:

    I feel you. Have you ever thought about changing from birth control to an IUD because I know that some birth control can affect the libido of women. Also, see a sex therapist; maybe she has some doubts and trauma she has to deal with.

  14. O-surfer says:

    Check out “Understanding Her Libido” (and many other resources) on “Sex Chat For Christian Wives”. The four women who produce it have lots of resources.

    Also, it takes a long time for hormones to get balanced after birth control pills. She basically has to detox. If you’re in the US, I’m sure you know someone who sells Young Living Essential oils. Endoflex is a blend of theirs that helps balance your hormones.

    • orion69 says:

      Dude, I feel your pain. This issue challenges a lot of us. My wife and I have been married 48 years and are both 69 years old. Right now she is good about every two or three weeks. I take care of myself about every two days. We have been mismatched since the beginning. She wanted to wait until we were married. We did have a good wedding night and i was excited to begin married life. about a week into our marriage i masturbated for the first time in married life. anyway, after some difficult years and lots of prayer i see an article about a “Marriage Encounter Weekend” Many church’s sponsor them. This saved my marriage. One of the best experiences of my life. We have almost never argued since. The best part
      is after that weekend we had sex 6 days in a row and the next year we averaged 3 or 4 times a week. Gradually 2 or 3 times a week and slowly back to our every 2 or 3 weeks. After expressing frustrations many times I actually left her. she was surprised. I told her I’ve told you why. She asked me to try a few days with her and she was more open and aggressive than ever. She also started experiencing really big orgasms that she never really had before. After a few weeks we were together again. Sex wasn’t necessarily more often but boy was it better. We are now having some of the longest love making sessions, biggest orgasms of our lives at 69 years of age. I guess i’m saying things can change. I recommend two of the best stories on this website; “How often is Enough – and why” and the other “Sexy Attitude – Keeping it hot and lasting”. The first expressed my feelings to my wife better than ever. Good luck and we are praying for you.

  15. Sharky says:

    Does your wife orgasm during sex? She must enjoy it as much as you do. Then she will be responsive to your advances. Tell her you want to figure out together what she likes and work on it.

    • Fearless Lunk says:

      Actually, I don't recommend this. Her caving in to sex b/c it’s a “duty” is not the goal. And it’s kind of misogynistic. This approach will likely do more damage.

  16. AdamW says:

    I was very much in your situation a quarter century ago. We got married and suddenly my horny girlfriend turned into a reluctant wife who wanted sex far less than me. I have three thoughts:

    1. No one has directly mentioned this but you have one big thing going for you; your wife seems to recognize this is a problem, and seems willing to explore solutions. That is huge, and essential for moving forward. Don't take it for granted. My wife was much more in denial that there was a problem at all, and that prevented us from moving forward for many years. As others have suggested, counselling is your best option; hopefully she is open to that and that it is an affordable option for you. You also mention that she makes an effort to 'satisfy my needs outside of PIV.' Dude, that is huge – it was PIV or nothing for us, and so usually nothing. It again suggest she is really making an effort here. This is a good sign.

    2. Don't beat yourself up over the porn. It's not a good habit, to be sure, but focus on controlling it rather than letting it control you – and that includes guilt/shame controlling you. She has put you into a difficult position here, even if unintentionally. It is likely that with her low sex drive, she has absolutely no idea why anyone would ever look at porn, and so she has an extremely negative view of it. But my guess is she hasn't really thought much about it at all, beyond that instant view that it is the same as 'cheating.' I agree it might make sense to tell her in a controlled setting with a counsellor who can help both of you address the issue.

    3. My final thought is to be open to whatever happens. People here have posted a lot of ideas and some great stories of turning things around. I hope that happens for you, but every person and every couple is unique. I posted my own reflections here a while ago. I hope they are helpful. I wish both of you all the best. https://marriageheat.com/2020/03/16/three-things-to-keep-in-mind/

    • Fearless Lunk says:

      Great response Adam. If you ever join Song of The Believers, look me up… I think we could be friends!

  17. catlover says:

    Well let me put in my 2 cents worth.
    1. Do no go to your wife with this wonderful confession to relieve your own guilt.
    2. Not confess to your wife on the chance that it will guilt trip her into having more sex with you.
    3. I suggest you find a Christian sex councelor. A young modern one.
    Let me explain why.
    4. But first look at yourself in a mirror.
    a. are you well groomed?
    b. are your fingernails clean and very short so as not to scratch her lady parts.
    c. are you well kept in your lower region. No one likes to get hair stuck in their teeth.
    d. do you always shower before you come to bed.
    e. do you always shower before trying to make love to her?
    f. when making love do you always endeavor to make her cum first?
    there is a story written by honey suckle dew u read.

  18. livinghope says:

    Like others I'd recommend quitting the porn immediately. I would wait to talk with her about it until you are both more involved in a church community and have that support system and counsel in place. I don't think you want to risk putting that kind of emotional distance between the two of you without others in your lives who will support your marital union and be voices telling you both to stay together and work it out.

  19. Emun87 says:

    We have and we do watch/view erotica/pornography videos. We both masturbate. Just some quick questions for you to ponder… But, first, imagine you get off work early and look forward to surprising your darling wife by arriving home earlier than normal; when you get there, you let yourself in and immediately are surprised by the sounds of your wife’s vocalizations, she is approaching an orgasm. You’ve certainly heard these sounds before when the two of you had passionate sex, but wait, you are not who she is enjoying… what is going on? You high step through the house and freeze at the sight of your beautiful, what you thought to be frigid, wife using a dildo and watching porn. The dildo is much bigger than your dick and she is certainly taking it harder than she has ever taken you. The man she is watching online is much fitter than you, and it seems as if he will never stop giving it to the girl he is pounding for your wife’s delight. She is enjoying herself greatly.

    Question 1 – What do you think about this; how do you feel about it? Sure, you have spanked the monkey watching videos like this, but now it is your wife enjoying herself without you… like you enjoy yourself without her. What do you think about this? Question 2 – Have you considered why/if your wife’s libido is low? Is it low or does she just not want to be intimate? Does she enjoy herself when you have sex together? I am going to guess she does, so we are back to why… Is she afraid of getting pregnant? Has her raising, (or, as my wife likes to call it, her ‘programming’) told her she doesn’t deserve to enjoy herself, she doesn’t deserve you? Question 3 – Have you spent time considering how your wife feels? A difficult prayer of mine in the past was a request of God to increase her drive or decrease mine… yeah, that is a difficult request, but it helped me see it as less about me, and more about us, or even better said, about her. Question 4 – Does she know you are reading Marriageheat stories? You need to tell her you are. The lie about erotica/pornography is what is wrong; that is undeniable. Is pornography wrong? Yes and no. That will be a discussion I’ll post about soon.

    Statements: I feel your pain brother. I have been there; I was there for years. Many years into our marriage, we concluded that yes, our drives were different, but not near as much as we thought. We learned and dealt with the fact that women in this society have been dealt a difficult hand of cards. My wife’s recognition of her programing, and my understanding of it, made all the difference. We know and except that we both masturbate (me for what seems my whole life, and her for going on 5 years), and that I do more than her. If it helps you to know, I’d guess that, conservatively, I ejaculate 12 to 15 times a week (she knows and supports this), and she probably has 8 to 10 orgasms, maybe more, weekly… it seems unfair, bwahahahaha, that woman can just go, and go, and go… once Connie “let go” (got past the programming), and let herself indulge and enjoy herself, she became multi-orgasmic. It took us nearly 25 maybe 30 years to get to this point, and the wait was well worth it, but there is no sense in it taking you two that long. TALK; talk some more. Do not lie. Be brutally honest.

  20. catlover says:

    I mostly, not that I matter, agree with Emun87 and Adam.
    If we think about it the Song of Songs is a sexual word picture that many churches have refused to cover as erotic graphic sexual content.
    So, lets address porn. There are first many types of porn. There is some made by married couples, some made by porn actors that are married or single, some that are hetero, some that are homo, some that are orgies, etc.
    Now lets contemplate and compare Song of Songs with visual sexual acts. Song involves one couple, one male and one female, either betrothed or married. So, perhaps visual sexual material that only involved the participants as in God's Word is not really forbidden porn. Just wondering using God's principles and Text.
    First let me say that my first wife, who died of cancer, and I watched porn together. I was responsible for it as I stumbled on it on late night TV before it was scrambled.
    I set the boundary! It was only couples. Never anything outside of the Song. One couple! Sometimes it might wander off to a couple that were professionals but never outside of the boundary of the one couple. There were no restrictions on the things the couple could do for each other as long as it didn't involve excess pain or things that Christians would not do for each other. Oral Anal Penis in Vagina etc.
    The problem with visual sex acts 'is' the church in my opinion. Not God! God watches us as we make love whereever and however we do it. He is not offended! He said so by the Song.
    Where things go wrong is when one or the other is doing this alone. That is when the devil can enter the relationship. Think about it. The one watching alone feels guilty because someone told his wife/husband that it is a sin. He/she are afraid of being caught and so gets into a cycle of trying to quit because my wife would be furious and someone told them both it is a sin. Remember we are saved by grace not by works so even if it was a sin it is forgivable by our Father. Maybe not by our spouse because of guilt teaching.
    Guilt is an evil thing that can be dealt with but in the case of a couple where one considers porn a horrible sin, it must be dealt with by a Christian counselor that recognizes the real meaning of the Song.
    To digress for a MOMENT. There are studies using brain scans that show porn is not addicting in the normal sense of addiction.
    Now let me ask everyone: what do you do if you have an unmatched libido? Do you just give up sex all together? Do you step outside of your marriage? 'heck no' Do you cajole or force your wife? 'heck no" Do you seek a divorce? 'I hope not' at least not before Christian marriage counseling. What if your wife has a physical problem that won't allow her to have sex? What do you do then?
    Perhaps one or the other of you is a visual learner and could best learn what is possible for a married couple when it is best taught by video. What do you do then?
    There are marriage counselors that recommend explicit sexual video to both teach and enhance a couples options. What do you do then? Do you say the counselor is of Satan or wrong for trying to teach a couple what is acceptable in married sex?
    Let me digress again for a moment: There was a pastor on TV that I loved to watch; I thought he and his wife were great teachers/preachers. One day on TV they held a question and answer session. One of the congregation said that her husband wanted to have oral sex. She wanted to know what the Bible said about it. The preacher gave some answer that said something about only food should pass the lips going to the belly, that oral sex was not part of or sanctioned by Scripture. That was the last time I watched him. Another time there was a women's retreat where a female preacher taught all the women that masturbation was a sin.
    So, you have to really think and question if the church stance on couple-only porn is really a problem or if it's a self-fulfilling prophesy. Some preacher declared it an absolute sin, some other preacher said with exegesis or finding scripture to fit what he wanted to say, that it destroys marriages. Then when someone is caught and the guilt trip is laid on him/her and the other spouse who believes it is wrong then looks at his/her spouse as cheating.
    Both are injured because of a teaching that should have been taught differently or not at all. "It is never good to do anything that could be harmful alone"! Don't drink alone etc.
    Now let me say that if watching porn takes the place of preforming your duties as stated in Cor:7 then you are abusing it. Remember anything can be abused: sugar, salt, soda, wine, golf, shopping, sex, etc. Anything can become a habit that may not be a good habit.
    But please consider that there may be circumstances where porn is the only thing keeping the marriage together. Some spouses refuse counseling, some refuse to change in spite of Scripture; what does the deprived spouse do then? Just give up all sexual thoughts and abstain? There are both physical and mental health issues in abstinence by a married couple.

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